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California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

dmv.ca.gov

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Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#61

Post by tshaddox »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #54
epicureanideal wrote: post #21

I’m looking forward to the day when the cost of taking one of these falls to somewhere 20% above the cost of fuel and wear and tear on the vehicle, making it incredibly cheap to take a ride anywhere you’d reasonably want to be driven to.

How do you know it isn't already at that price? Uber estimated that it costs Waymo $2/mile to operate. Google says they charge $1.60 to $2.60 a mile, depending on location and demand, so Waymo is already almost certainly at the price you claim you'd be taking it. I think you dramatically underestimate how much it actually costs to operate a car. Most people think they pay $0 to garage their car, for instance, since t…

> Most people think they pay $0 to garage their car, for instance, since the cost was rolled into the price of their house purchase and mostly invisible. But it isn't $0 to a business.

And on the other hand, each Waymo parking spot is probably a lot cheaper per unit time than 250 square feet inside a house in a residential area. And presumably they need a lot less than 1 parking spot per car.

> Here's one attempt at costs for Waymo that finds it costs them about $60,000 a year to operate a single car.

Doesn't that sound cheap? If a car can average 10 rides per day, that's $16 per ride.

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#63

Post by maxerickson »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #58
gcheong wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I know it’s not going to cancel because it’s a robot" I won't be at all surprised when they start calculating their profits in real-time, if they aren't already, and cancelling or delaying trips that are deemed unprofitable in the moment. They are robots after all.

Waymo already does that through its surge pricing mechanism and limited availability of cars at busy times. And if they really don't want to serve you they'd just not let you book.

No 3rd party arbitrage, much reduced pressure to accept fares they don't want (there's probably still some).

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#64

Post by whatshisface »

davidw wrote: post #59
poszlem wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not saying this HAS to happen. But I remember when Ubers were clean, quiet, cheap too. I think you are just looking at a product before the enshittification, when they still have to pretend they care about your comfort.

I wonder what the non-subsidized price of a Waymo ride would be.

Lower prices for recommended destinations, ads played during trip, LLM engages the customer.

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#65

Post by astrange »

krat0sprakhar wrote: post #42
willio58 wrote: post #26

I didn’t think I’d be so pro Waymo but anecdotally I had a fantastic experience with one recently. I was at a music show very late ~1-2am in SF and walked out to grab an uber to the airbnb I was staying at. I kept getting assigned an uber, then I’d wait 10 minutes, then they’d cancel. Rinse and repeat for 30 minutes, mind you I even resorted to calling Lyfts at the same time and nothing bit. Then I say screw it and d…

> then I’d wait 10 minutes, then they’d cancel. Rinse and repeat for 30 minutes, This is such a common problem in SF (esp in odd times / from the airport). Waymo has been a lifesaver in these situations.

I once got stuck at the vista point at the north end of Golden Gate, because it turns out it's nearly impossible to approach from the Marin side even though that's closer. So like ~4 drivers in a row tried, got lost on the way and canceled.

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#66

Post by kilroy123 »

willio58 wrote: post #26

I didn’t think I’d be so pro Waymo but anecdotally I had a fantastic experience with one recently. I was at a music show very late ~1-2am in SF and walked out to grab an uber to the airbnb I was staying at. I kept getting assigned an uber, then I’d wait 10 minutes, then they’d cancel. Rinse and repeat for 30 minutes, mind you I even resorted to calling Lyfts at the same time and nothing bit. Then I say screw it and d…

The same exact thing happened to me last time I was in San Fran. I wanted uber because it was cheaper. Ended up taking a Waymo for more because no one else would take me.

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#67

Post by virtue3 »

m-ee wrote: post #56
krat0sprakhar wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> then I’d wait 10 minutes, then they’d cancel. Rinse and repeat for 30 minutes, This is such a common problem in SF (esp in odd times / from the airport). Waymo has been a lifesaver in these situations.

Used to happen to me constantly trying to go across the bay bridge in either direction when I lived in Oakland. I didn’t even mind the cancelations so much but the worst was when they would try and hide around the block, close enough to say they’ve “arrived” to try to get me marked as a no show and pocket the fee.

They have a cancellation rate metric on their end that they are trying to avoid.

I have similar problems when I dated someone across the bridge.

They also lose a ton of money leaving SF at prime time / etc.

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#68

Post by tobyjsullivan »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #54
epicureanideal wrote: post #21

I’m looking forward to the day when the cost of taking one of these falls to somewhere 20% above the cost of fuel and wear and tear on the vehicle, making it incredibly cheap to take a ride anywhere you’d reasonably want to be driven to.

How do you know it isn't already at that price? Uber estimated that it costs Waymo $2/mile to operate. Google says they charge $1.60 to $2.60 a mile, depending on location and demand, so Waymo is already almost certainly at the price you claim you'd be taking it. I think you dramatically underestimate how much it actually costs to operate a car. Most people think they pay $0 to garage their car, for instance, since t…

> Google says they charge $1.60 to $2.60 a mile

That’s surprising. I’ve been trying to find data on rates and crowd-sourced data and anecdotes seem closer to $6/mile

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#69

Post by astrange »

sneak wrote: post #53
poszlem wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not saying this HAS to happen. But I remember when Ubers were clean, quiet, cheap too. I think you are just looking at a product before the enshittification, when they still have to pretend they care about your comfort.

Uber, when it was launched, was limos only, and would come (with ETA) when cabs would not. It was expensive. The story they told is that they were unable to get a ride. That’s not enshittification, that’s simply scammers on the platform not doing their job. That won’t happen with robots. They might raise the prices, or clean the cars less frequently, but if it shows up and runs the program, it won’t ever get worse th…

Uber still is like that if you choose that option. It just defaults to UberX because that's cheaper. I dunno, I've never been in a dirty Uber/Lyft.

But yes, I originally switched to them because Bay Area cabs just will not pick you up if they don't feel like it.

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#70

Post by virtue3 »

Rodeoclash wrote: post #44
poszlem wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not saying this HAS to happen. But I remember when Ubers were clean, quiet, cheap too. I think you are just looking at a product before the enshittification, when they still have to pretend they care about your comfort.

It will undoubtedly get enshittifed in its own way, probably higher prices, but at least it will be reliable when booked. Ubers seem to be a crap shoot these days if they're actually going to come and get you.

the same exact problems we had with Taxis. Sigh.
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