Live data from Hacker News

Europe's cookie nightmare is crumbling. EC wants preference at browser level

theverge.com

61–70 of 99 posts

Re: Europe's cookie nightmare is crumbling. EC wants preference at browser level

#61

Here's my proposal: * Let websites do whatever they want with cookies/local storage. * Let browsers delete them as often as they want. * Make other kinds of fingerprinting illegal.

> * Make other kinds of fingerprinting illegal.

Speeding is illegal. Controlled substances are illegal. Murder is illegal. Embezzlement is illegal. Driving in a school zone while using a mobile device is illegal.

Has the legality stopped any of it?

Re: Europe's cookie nightmare is crumbling. EC wants preference at browser level

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are EULAs even enforceable?

they are generally thought to be, but require litigation- which is a problem for the general population! corporations have enough money to tie you up in court with lawyers.

It was a lot more plausible when it is likely the judge has never clicked past an EULA. Today unless you've dug up some archaic fossil the judge is perfectly familiar with this nonsense so you're in a position where the person who decides what the law is knows EULAs are bullshit nobody reads.

I'd expect a situation like Somerset v Stewart. Mansfield clearly didn't want to rule you can't have slavery because that's going to be extremely disruptive to powerful people - so he suggests they settle and then the case goes away and he isn't called to say anything. But Stewart refuses to settle, apparently nobody could convince him that it's in his best interest - so, OK says Mansfield: fiat justitia, ruat cælum (Justice be done though the heavens fall). Somerset walks free.

Are corporations relying on EULAs smart enough to take the L? I guess we'd see.

Re: Europe's cookie nightmare is crumbling. EC wants preference at browser level

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are EULAs even enforceable?

In the EU, it's complicated. There is a very clear law that forbids any additional contract terms post the point of sale, so that if you go to a store, purchase a box with software in it and then go home to install it, when it pops up a dialog for you to "agree" on, you can just ignore it, nothing in that is enforceable at all. And no, small print text on the box that says you have to agree to terms in the software d…

There’s still some principles that it must be proportionate and reasonably intelligible to the average person. A 100-page EULA for end-user software generally won’t be enforceable.

Re: Europe's cookie nightmare is crumbling. EC wants preference at browser level

#64
post #7

In the meantime, if you're browsing the web with uBlock Origin, you should definitely enable cookie list filters in Dashboard > Filter lists > Cookie Notices. Haven't seen a banner in ages.

I've noticed more and more websites breaking from that. The page won't scroll and you can't interact with anything.

There have been times where I've been known to open up the dev tools to find the offending overflow:hidden rule. "I'll show you" mentality takes over some times.

Re: Europe's cookie nightmare is crumbling. EC wants preference at browser level

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They no longer track you by (only) cookies- the GPDR made sure of that. Fingerprinting is the current standard and there’s no easy way to block that.

> They no longer track you by (only) cookies- the GPDR made sure of that. Fingerprinting is the current standard and there’s no easy way to block that. Without consent, this is illegal, so if this is happening someone's gonna get sued and fined.

Don't hold your breath for that to happen though. Maybe in your grandkid's lifetime, but doubtful in yours.

Re: Europe's cookie nightmare is crumbling. EC wants preference at browser level

#67

Users will overwhelmingly use browsers in vanilla config. The question here will be how browser vendors show this option. If - say - a company that gives away a browser for free but makes money from ads designed this, then they'll hide the option deep in some obscure menu, never remind people it exists, and reset it on every update. So the devil is in the details. The best option I think isn't a secret setting in a b…

Dialog is already standardized in the current GDPR. There is literally an item there which states that Reject consent option should be the same and equally easily accessible as Accept consent option. So basically all dark pattern sites are already criminals. The problem is zero enforcement of the GDPR.

Re: Europe's cookie nightmare is crumbling. EC wants preference at browser level

#68
post #19

IMO there isn't a cookie nightmare but rather a tracking nightmare. I'm not fully up-to-date on if there is a separate EU directive on cookies on the internet specifically, but the GDPR is the _General_ Data Protection Regulation. Meaning that if I go and collect your info on pen and paper, I must then ask your permission on how I process and share that data, especially if sharing that data is not necessary to comple…

There is no legislation on cookies. The legislation is on tracking, or more generally, personal data collection. It doesn’t matter if websites use cookies or other means for those purposes.

Re: Europe's cookie nightmare is crumbling. EC wants preference at browser level

#69

Here's my proposal: * Let websites do whatever they want with cookies/local storage. * Let browsers delete them as often as they want. * Make other kinds of fingerprinting illegal.

That moves the onus to the user to distinguish between tracking and non-tracking uses of cookies and local storage. It also contradicts the principle that tracking requires informed consent.
Post reply on HN