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GCC 16 considering changing default to C++20

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Re: GCC 16 considering changing default to C++20

#61

Post by dietr1ch »

dagmx wrote: post #53
withzombies wrote: post #10

Shouldn't the compilers be on the bleeding edge of the standards? What is the downside of switching to the newest standard when it's properly supported? It's the type of dog fooding they should be doing! It's one reason why people care so much about self-hosted compilers, it's a demonstration of maturity of the language/compiler.

This is about changing the default. The issue with defaults is that people have projects that implicitly expect the default to be static. So when the default changes, many projects break. This is maybe fine if it’s your own project but when it’s a few dependencies deep, it becomes more of an issue to fix.

So it has the added benefit of having people learn how to set up their projects properly? Great.

Re: GCC 16 considering changing default to C++20

#64

Post by gessha »

veltas wrote: post #6
NegativeK wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anubis has been around for almost a year now, but it's also not particularly relevant to the content of the email thread.

It's particularly jarring to basically every site I've seen it on which is usually some serious and professional looking open source site. I wonder why nobody configures this, is this not something that they can configure themselves to a more relevant image, like the GCC logo or something?

Fire up your LLM of choice and make a web extension to make it more presentable. Remove the logo, generate one, do whatever you want. The world is your playground, don’t let it “jarr” you with stuff.

Re: GCC 16 considering changing default to C++20

#65

Post by ndiddy »

suby wrote: post #8
f1refly wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right? I hope it never goes away, we should make the web more fun instead of sad and clean!

I think if you were to poll people, a significant portion would be repulsed by this catgirl aesthetic, or (though this isn't the case for Anubis) the cliche inappropriately dressed inappropriately young anime characters dawned as mascots in an ever increasing number of projects. People can do whatever they want with their projects, but I feel like the people who like this crap perhaps don't understand how repulsive i…

This is intentional. The version with the fun art that expresses the creator's individuality is free and open source, but they sell a paid version with bland, corporate-friendly art that also supports custom art and CSS. This makes the project sustainable to work on without having to worry about corporations that care about professionalism/how people like you think/etc not supporting the project financially.

Re: GCC 16 considering changing default to C++20

#67

Post by kstrauser »

cxr wrote: post #47
kstrauser wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: you could write a C++ compiler in a non-C/C++ language such that the compiler’s implementation language doesn’t even have the notion of C++20. A compiler is perfectly capable of compiling programs which use features that its own source does not.

That's not a counterpoint—at least not to anything in the comment that you're (nominally) "responding" to. So why has it been posted it as a reply, and why label it a counterpoint?

Read them again a couple more times and it may become clear.

The prior post seemed to be claiming that this required any form of a bootstrapping process, when it does not.

Re: GCC 16 considering changing default to C++20

#68

Post by tcfhgj »

ajross wrote: post #33
withzombies wrote: post #10

Shouldn't the compilers be on the bleeding edge of the standards? What is the downside of switching to the newest standard when it's properly supported? It's the type of dog fooding they should be doing! It's one reason why people care so much about self-hosted compilers, it's a demonstration of maturity of the language/compiler.

> What is the downside of switching to the newest standard when it's properly supported? Backwards compatibility. Not all legal old syntax is necessarily legal new syntax[1], so there is the possibility that perfectly valid C++11 code exists in the wild that won't build with a new gcc. [1] The big one is obviously new keywords[2]. In older C++, it's legal to have a variable named "requires" or "consteval", and now it…

well, shouldn't not-up-to-date code use the corresponding compiler flag instead of someone starting a greenfield project, who might then write outdated code?

Re: GCC 16 considering changing default to C++20

#69

Post by BeetleB »

withzombies wrote: post #10

Shouldn't the compilers be on the bleeding edge of the standards? What is the downside of switching to the newest standard when it's properly supported? It's the type of dog fooding they should be doing! It's one reason why people care so much about self-hosted compilers, it's a demonstration of maturity of the language/compiler.

> What is the downside of switching to the newest standard when it's properly supported?

"Properly supported" is the key here. Does GCC currently properly support C++23, for example? When I checked a few months ago, it didn't.

Re: GCC 16 considering changing default to C++20

#70

Post by makemake_kbo »

_vqpz wrote: post #13
suby wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if you were to poll people, a significant portion would be repulsed by this catgirl aesthetic, or (though this isn't the case for Anubis) the cliche inappropriately dressed inappropriately young anime characters dawned as mascots in an ever increasing number of projects. People can do whatever they want with their projects, but I feel like the people who like this crap perhaps don't understand how repulsive i…

I'm not repulsed by it but I do wish the people that forced this stuff into their software/hardware realized how juvenile it makes their product look. There's a decent cheap Chinese pair of Bluetooth earbuds on Amazon that's been very popular among audiophiles but the feedback sounds are an anime girl making noises and there's no way to turn it off so I lost interest in purchasing them.

well for the bluetooth headphones i dont think you were the target demographic.

but open source generally isnt treated as a product. its just a bunch of volunteers having fun writing code. its natural that they will include their other interests in it in some way because it makes working on a project more fun. first impressions matter a lot, but i dont think foss projects should optimize for that instead of having fun.

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