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Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

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Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#61

Post by kayodelycaon »

drdaeman wrote: post #50
baggy_trough wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

No party in the US seem to fight for a secure (end-to-end auditable) voting process. I've yet to hear any politician talk about anything like that, a process where no voter has to trust the system and can be still confident (assuming they understand the underlying math) their vote was counted and counted correctly. It is true that every scheme out there (that I've read about) has some flaws. But I'd rather have NSA s…

The reason is nobody trusts a single party to implement that honestly.

Last time I checked, Party X only cared about Party Y’s voters who are voting illegally. They’re perfectly fine with their voters doing it.

Technology is a tool against corruption not a cure for it.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#62

Post by alwa »

stavros wrote: post #48
pat2man wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this apply to a digital version of an official government ID? The government already has all this data.

I didn't say anything about the data the government has or doesn't have. I'm talking about perfect enforcement. Try faking a digital ID.

And, specifically, frictionless perfect enforcement. Kind of like CCTV you can pull on request after a crime, vs proactive permanent ubiquitous surveillance (looking at you, Flock Safety).

It feels healthier for the enforcement apparatus to have a budget, in terms of material personnel or time, that requires some degree of priority-setting. That priority-setting is by its nature a politically responsive process. And it’s compatible with the kind of situation that allows Really Quite Good enforcement, but not of absolutely everything absolutely all the time.

Otherwise ossification feels like exactly the word, as you said, stavros: if it costs nothing for the system to enforce stuff that was important in the hazy past but is no longer relevant, nobody wants to be the one blamed for formally easing restrictions just in case something new bad happens; 20 years later you’re still taking off your shoes at the airport. (I know, I know, they finally quit that. Still took decades. And the part that was cost-free—imaging your genitalia—continues unabated.)

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#63

Post by emptybits »

While Apple has some admirable history in standing up to government information requests[1], am I alone in wondering now if Apple has started to voluntarily align itself with the current administration? For example, Apple is helping to build Donald Trump's new gold-plated ballroom.[2] (!)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple%E2%80%93FBI_encryption_d...

[2] https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/trumps-ballro...

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#64

Post by blackqueeriroh »

baggy_trough wrote: post #38
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to show ID to vote in my country, I thought that was the normal thing.

[flagged]

In the United States, getting an ID is expensive and time-consuming and is often inaccessible to many people, particularly those who don’t speak English, are poor, or work service jobs. These people are the same people who are historically marginalized and oppressed. This is why voter ID laws in the United States are fundamentally anti-democratic and disenfranchising.

If IDs were free and incredibly easy to get, I wouldn’t care about a voter ID law.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#65

Post by atonse »

barbazoo wrote: post #57
pkolaczk wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don’t need it in Poland. We’ve been using a similar but official government issued app with ID, driving license, car documents for years now. Works both on Android and iPhone. Can be also used for logging into government web apps like taxes, for document signing or for voting. And it reminds me whenever my car insurance expires or it needs the annual check. Pretty impressive IMHO.

I was thinking of US permanent residents that have an interest in this but no US passport.

I can see them eventually doing this. Nothing on the tech side stopping them.

You gotta start somewhere. They started with Driver's Licenses.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#66

Post by pat2man »

pat2man wrote: post #43
stavros wrote: post #39

I'm really wary of these initiatives, because perfect law enforcement is how society ossifies. Imagine if we could prosecute all homosexual tendencies when they happened, or all interracial relationships, or any other antiquated law. Society would never progress. What happens if the government can now perfectly enforce that people under 18 can't do X or Y?

How does this apply to a digital version of an official government ID? The government already has all this data.

To set this up, you have to scan the chip on your passport. Its essentially the same data on both chips, one is just in my phone's enclave and the other is in an embedded NFC chip.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#67

Post by atonse »

blackqueeriroh wrote: post #64
baggy_trough wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

In the United States, getting an ID is expensive and time-consuming and is often inaccessible to many people, particularly those who don’t speak English, are poor, or work service jobs. These people are the same people who are historically marginalized and oppressed. This is why voter ID laws in the United States are fundamentally anti-democratic and disenfranchising. If IDs were free and incredibly easy to get, I wo…

I hear this a lot, can you give me any examples of how these IDs are inaccessible? Can you please give concrete examples of what is asked for that feels onerous, or any specific cases where people aren't able to get IDs?

For example, I know that Maryland DMV will even offer a translator to help you with your driving test. I'm not sure why, because all signs are in English.

I have seen exactly the opposite, that at least in Maryland and bigger states, they go out of their way to make things convenient.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#68

Post by pat2man »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #34
sugarpimpdorsey wrote: post #23

Can we use this for voter ID?

You have to show ID to vote in my country, I thought that was the normal thing.

We don't have a national ID here in the US. Passports can be quite expensive. Local state ID cards don't prove citizenship.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#69

Post by 0x457 »

throw0101d wrote: post #22
xd1936 wrote: post #12

I am never handing my phone to a cop.

> I am never handing my phone to a cop. The point is that you don't have to: > To present a Digital ID in person, users can double-click the side button or Home button to access Apple Wallet and select Digital ID. From there, they can hold their iPhone or Apple Watch near an identity reader, review the specific information being requested, and use Face ID or Touch ID to authenticate. "hold … near … review" If you're…

> If you're (e.g.) buying alcohol, then the "specific information" would be your birthday, and that is all that would be sent over.

Unless there is a very tight control over this - lol nope. Big stores will request as much as they can to target you with ads.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#70

Post by 0x457 »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #30
bitpush wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get what you're saying, but if you think of it what we're doing today - handing over the one and only official piece of document to a) cop b) club bouncer etc. They can hold onto it, and never return it. They can deface it. All of that is a possibilty. You could argue, a sufficiently locked down phone is a better alternative. If they do something, you'll only lose $$

If I lose a piece of ID, I've lost a piece of paper/plastic. I'm inconvenienced, but can easily get a replacement and have the original invalidated.

> have the original invalidated.

Only for it's "original" use case - traffic laws enforcement. I don't think any other entity can validate if this piece of plastic is invalidated or not. Also, it's not like information on lost ID gets erased when you get a new one: still has your address, DOB and other info that can be misused.

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