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What happened to Transmeta, the last big dotcom IPO

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Re: What happened to Transmeta, the last big dotcom IPO

#61
God, I had a manager who was the worst manager I ever had who was the last one to stay at Transmeta to turn off the lights. Between working there and working at DEC he could boast that he'd supervised both Dave Cutler and Linus Torvalds.

One time I had to unravel a race condition and he seemed pissed that it took a few days and when I tried to explain the complexity he told me his name was on a patent for a system that would let several VAXes share a single disk and didn't need a lecture.

Re: What happened to Transmeta, the last big dotcom IPO

#62
I recall a coworker being excited several years ago about catching someone lying about their linux experience before their interview. If what they said was true, they'd have to have been working on it during it's first year.

He was then excited after the interview because the individual had been working at transmeta with Linus, and his resume was accurate. He didn't end up working with us, but I wasn't privy to any additional information.

Re: What happened to Transmeta, the last big dotcom IPO

#63
post #6

Transmeta made a technology bet that dynamic compilation could beat OOO super scalar CPUs in SPEC. It was wrong, but it was controversial among experts at the time. I’m glad that they tried it even though it turned out to be wrong. Many of the lessons learned are documented in systems conferences and incorporated into modern designs, ie GPUs. To me transmeta is a great example of a venture investment. If it would hav…

That's kind of the bet they made, but misses a key point.

Their fundamental idea was that by having simpler CPUs, they could iterate on Moore's law more quickly. And eventually they would win on performance. Not just on a few speculative edge cases, but overall. The dynamic compilation was needed to be able to run existing software on it.

The first iterations, of course, would be slower. And so their initial market, needed to afford those software generations, would be use cases for low power. Because the complexity of a CISC chip made that a weak point for Intel.

They ran into a number of problems.

The first is that the team building that dynamic compilation layer was more familiar with the demands of Linux than Windows, with the result that the compilation worked better for Linux than Windows.

The second problem was that the "simple iterates faster" also turns out to be true for ARM chips. And the most profitable segments of that low power market turned out to be willing to rewrite their software for that use case.

And the third problem is that Intel proved to be able to address their architectural shortcomings by throwing enough engineers at the problem to iterate faster.

If Transmeta had won its bet, they would have completely dominated. But they didn't.

It is worth noting that Apple pursued a somewhat similar idea with Rosetta. Both in changing to Intel, and later changing to ARM64. With the crucial difference that they also controlled the operating system. Meaning that instead of constantly dynamically compiling, they could rely on the operating system to decide what needs to be compiled, when, and call it correctly. And they also better understood what to optimize for.

Re: What happened to Transmeta, the last big dotcom IPO

#64

God, I had a manager who was the worst manager I ever had who was the last one to stay at Transmeta to turn off the lights. Between working there and working at DEC he could boast that he'd supervised both Dave Cutler and Linus Torvalds. One time I had to unravel a race condition and he seemed pissed that it took a few days and when I tried to explain the complexity he told me his name was on a patent for a system th…

>he told me his name was on a patent for a system that would let several VAXes share a single disk

Ha, "We stand on the shoulders of giants"...

Re: What happened to Transmeta, the last big dotcom IPO

#65
post #20
post #6

Transmeta made a technology bet that dynamic compilation could beat OOO super scalar CPUs in SPEC. It was wrong, but it was controversial among experts at the time. I’m glad that they tried it even though it turned out to be wrong. Many of the lessons learned are documented in systems conferences and incorporated into modern designs, ie GPUs. To me transmeta is a great example of a venture investment. If it would hav…

They were also the first to produce an x86 CPU with an integrated northbridge, they could have pitched it more at embedded and industrial markets where SPEC scores are less important.

They did! There are many transmeta powered thin clients for example.

Re: What happened to Transmeta, the last big dotcom IPO

#66
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think more about the timing being incorrect - betting on software in an era of exponential hardware growth was unwise (software performance can’t scale that way). The problem is that you need to marry it with a significantly better CPU/architecture because the JIT is about not losing performance while retaining back compat. However, if you add it onto a better CPU it’s a fine technique to bet on - case in point App…

> However, if you add it onto a better CPU it’s a fine technique to bet on - case in point Apple’s move away from Intel onto homegrown CPUs. I don't think Apple is a good example here. Arm was extremely well-established when Apple began its own phone/tablet CPU designs. By the time Macs began to transition, much of their developer ecosystem was already familiar. Apple's CPUs are actually notably conservative when com…

> no special vector instructions (e.g. SVE)

Wut - SVE and SME are literally Apple designs (AMX) which have been "back ported".

Re: What happened to Transmeta, the last big dotcom IPO

#67
post #6

Transmeta made a technology bet that dynamic compilation could beat OOO super scalar CPUs in SPEC. It was wrong, but it was controversial among experts at the time. I’m glad that they tried it even though it turned out to be wrong. Many of the lessons learned are documented in systems conferences and incorporated into modern designs, ie GPUs. To me transmeta is a great example of a venture investment. If it would hav…

I think more about the timing being incorrect - betting on software in an era of exponential hardware growth was unwise (software performance can’t scale that way). The problem is that you need to marry it with a significantly better CPU/architecture because the JIT is about not losing performance while retaining back compat. However, if you add it onto a better CPU it’s a fine technique to bet on - case in point App…

Exactly... I think that if you look at the accelerator paths that Apple's chips have for x86 emulation combined with software it's pretty nifty. I do wish these were somewhat standardized/licensed/upstreamed so that other arm vendors could use them in a normalized way.

Re: What happened to Transmeta, the last big dotcom IPO

#68
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The children of Segway are still here! Electric unicycles and Onewheels! And they're really fun!

Yeah, for me Segway has been a great lesson in how patents can hold back innovation. It was a niche player that prevented others from trying to innovate on the form factor for a number of years.

True!

In a similar vein:

One of the dads at school runs a company that does a nanotech waterproof coating for electronics (backed by patents). I told him that it would be very useful for personal electric vehicles, like electric unicycles. He replied that they looked at that, but decided not to license the tech for that use, because there wasn't enough money in it.

Sad.

Re: What happened to Transmeta, the last big dotcom IPO

#69
at the time, just out of undergrad, I ended up working for the remnants of the #9 Video Card company that had been bought by S3 and was masking a last effort at making a Linux-based Transmeta-powered "web-pad" (tablet): the "Frontpath ProGear" (new management wouldn't let them give it a Beatles related name that #9 equipment used to get)

in any case due to the unfortunate timing of the dot-com implosion it never really went anywhere (I wish I had managed to keep one, they used to appear on ebay occasionally)

the one thing I remember is that it was memory limited, it had 64MB but I think the code-morphing software really wanted 16MB of it which really cut into the available system memory

Re: What happened to Transmeta, the last big dotcom IPO

#70

God, I had a manager who was the worst manager I ever had who was the last one to stay at Transmeta to turn off the lights. Between working there and working at DEC he could boast that he'd supervised both Dave Cutler and Linus Torvalds. One time I had to unravel a race condition and he seemed pissed that it took a few days and when I tried to explain the complexity he told me his name was on a patent for a system th…

“Ah, let’s just put it on a VAX then…”
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