Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

thedailybeast.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 397 posts

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#61

Post by fzeroracer »

docdeek wrote: post #37
lesuorac wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Polling suggests that independents don’t “overwhelmingly" blame the GOP. It’s split 48/32/14 GOP/Dem/Equal "Democrats and Republicans hold each other's party more responsible for the government shutdown. Among independents, 48 percent think Republicans in Congress are more responsible, while 32 percent think Democrats in Congress are more responsible and 14 percent volunteered that they think both parties are equally…

This is true, but it's also changing every week to where people increasingly blame the Republicans. A lot of people are still completely insulated from the consequences of the current shutdown, but as food benefits lapse and air travel shuts down people are going to blame the very public president and party that's allowing this to happen.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#62

Post by inglor_cz »

estearum wrote: post #39
inglor_cz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be a somewhat inefficient system. There is no absolute need to consider aviation fees to be taxes and collect them through a federal agency. Individual airports should be capable of financing their local ATC as they see fit, be it their own airport fees or, IDK, a surcharge on hamburgers sold in the local McD or a gift from a wealthy sponsor; and they should only have a duty to maintain certain technica…

Are you certain maintaining those technical standards would be much more efficient than the current system?

Certain is a strong word, but in many other contexts, this is the actually used system, even in aviation. The FAA requires certain standards of maintenance for aircraft, for example, but individual mechanics aren't FAA employees.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#64

Post by an0malous »

fzeroracer wrote: post #49
slg wrote: post #16

I know many of the people reading this will think I'm being hysterical. But there was a small voice in the back of my mind when the shutdown started wondering whether that version of the American government would ever reopen and that voice has started to become much louder in recent days. Specifically the combination of this, the handling of SNAP benefits, and this all happening in November just seems intentionally d…

Well, there's one critical flaw which is that Trump is also fucking up with the military. A lot of military members are going unpaid, and many more are going unpaid and their family isn't receiving snap benefits. An authoritarian trying to seize power without the backing of the military is bound to lead to failure, and even though money is being funneled into ICE enmasse they're an untrained legion of goons with litt…

ICE is being paid

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#65

Post by HPsquared »

dylan604 wrote: post #21
mothballed wrote: post #4

It's wild ATC isn't funded by use fees instead of being appropriated by congress. Seems like a good opportunity to provide some mechanism so the government has to shit or get off the pot, because if the government won't do the job the airlines would surely be glad to pay for the service themselves.

> the airlines would surely be glad to pay for the service themselves. No, they would be glad to increase fares so that the flying customers pay for the service themselves. Currently, ATC is subsidized by all tax payers. Your method moves the burden to only those that pay for fares. I'm just pointing it out not saying it is good/bad.

That's probably better anyway. Air fares should cover the costs of flying. It's already a very profitable activity: it's much more efficient than the alternatives, and flying provides much value to passengers. So why can't the industry fund itself?

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#66

Post by koolba »

tdb7893 wrote: post #56
jacquesm wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have your parties muddled up. The democrats are not in power.

I'm a Democrat (well, nominally at least) but they clearly need some people from both parties to fund the government. Democrats won't vote for a "clean" bill and Republicans won't negotiate. The crazy thing is people predicted the shutdown in the spring and the government still drove the boat straight into this iceberg.

> The crazy thing is people predicted the shutdown in the spring and the government still drove the boat straight into this iceberg.

The Democrats also had ample opportunity to extend the bonus Covid era subsidies when they controlled all branches of government. They could have included in the overall reconciliation funding bill that bypassed the filibuster. Not doing so was deliberate.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#67

Post by themafia »

inglor_cz wrote: post #28
bobthepanda wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It kind of is https://www.faa.gov/about/budget/aatf The problem is that tax collection also happens with congressional approval.

This seems to be a somewhat inefficient system. There is no absolute need to consider aviation fees to be taxes and collect them through a federal agency. Individual airports should be capable of financing their local ATC as they see fit, be it their own airport fees or, IDK, a surcharge on hamburgers sold in the local McD or a gift from a wealthy sponsor; and they should only have a duty to maintain certain technica…

> no absolute need to consider aviation fees to be taxes and collect them through a federal agency.

What if you collect too much? The fund is subject to appropriations.

> financing their local ATC as they see fit

We already use mileage based overflight fees:

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/international_aviation/overf...

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#68

Post by nandomrumber »

pwthornton wrote: post #13
mothballed wrote: post #4

It's wild ATC isn't funded by use fees instead of being appropriated by congress. Seems like a good opportunity to provide some mechanism so the government has to shit or get off the pot, because if the government won't do the job the airlines would surely be glad to pay for the service themselves.

It is kind of wild that airports themselves don't straight up pay for this. I can understand not wanting to privatize it, as they'll be liable to half-ass it, but surely a usage fee on flights would cover it? I wonder if this is because bigger airports near major cities and businesses would basically be subsidizing tons of airports in the middle of nowhere, and some people don't want to admit that?

Most airports in the middle of nowhere aren’t controlled.

There are something like 530 ATC towers in the USA out of 5000 or so public airports. 20,000 if we include anything that can be described as an airstrip.

Your wider point still stands though, probably something like 20% of the airports handle 80% of the traffic.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#69

Post by ecshafer »

jacquesm wrote: post #32
ecshafer wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You have your parties muddled up. The democrats are not in power.

Republicans could end filibuster, true. That would probably be bad. Republicans dont have a filibuster proof majority, they need to negotiate. Democrats are dying on this one hill which is not a good idea that has little benefit https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/republicans/news...

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#70

Post by pkulak »

fzeroracer wrote: post #49
slg wrote: post #16

I know many of the people reading this will think I'm being hysterical. But there was a small voice in the back of my mind when the shutdown started wondering whether that version of the American government would ever reopen and that voice has started to become much louder in recent days. Specifically the combination of this, the handling of SNAP benefits, and this all happening in November just seems intentionally d…

Well, there's one critical flaw which is that Trump is also fucking up with the military. A lot of military members are going unpaid, and many more are going unpaid and their family isn't receiving snap benefits. An authoritarian trying to seize power without the backing of the military is bound to lead to failure, and even though money is being funneled into ICE enmasse they're an untrained legion of goons with litt…

Didn’t they illegally take funds from the CIA to pay the military and ICE?

It seems to me like this is ideal for them. They break the law to pay for the stuff they want, let everything else rot. Why the Democrats have allowed this is beyond me.

Post reply on HN