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The kind of company I want to be a part of

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Re: The kind of company I want to be a part of

#61

Post by abraxas »

maratc wrote: post #36
abraxas wrote: post #5

Number "two" in Polish (depending on context): dwa, dwoje, dwie, dwóch, dwiema, dwom, dwojga, dwojgu, dwójka, dwójki, dwójkę, dwójką, dwójce, dwójko So that's just my mother tongue. It think your problem is a bit more complex than (s).

I think it's more about inclination of the words that can't be replaced with a number. In English, it's easy: * 1 *file* sent But: * 2 *files* sent * 12 *files* sent * 21 *files* sent * 16,777,221 *files* sent. How does Polish go about that?

1 plik wysłany

2 pliki wysłane

12 plików wysłanych

21 plików wysłanych

BUT

22 or 23 or 24 pliki wysłane

BUT again

25 plików wysłanych

16'777'221 plików wysłanych

Re: The kind of company I want to be a part of

#62

Post by commandlinefan »

canes123456 wrote: post #34
jordanb wrote: post #22

This is the Californian Ideology in a blog post. The implication that title and intro mean to imply is working for companies that build products that are not evil and hostile to their users. But the call to action is to.. embed logic in the programs to pluralize properly (in English). It's possible to write evil software that pluralizes words. It's possible to write beneficial software that does not pluralize words.…

I am baffled why you are inserting good and evil into this. He just seems to want to work at companies that value craft and attention to detail. It just like the jobs quote about the back of the furniture also being attractive.

I was honestly expecting the link to be somebody's quixotic rant about software that does "good" in the world rather than serves ads and I was pleasantly surprised to see something I can actually relate to.

Re: The kind of company I want to be a part of

#63

Post by wavemode »

jordanb wrote: post #47
wavemode wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The (s) alternative that the article is arguing against is even worse for i18n, so what's your point?

You'll have to look up the way i18n frameworks work, but no the "(s)" is not worse. It is far better because it's a simple string that the framework can substitute without embedded business logic trying to manipulate the individual characters in a way that only works in one language.

Huh? "(s)", itself, only works in one language! Other languages (and even English, sometimes) don't always pluralize by appending lettters to the end of words, so the parenthesized suffix thing very regularly doesn't even work.

And who exactly is talking about "embedding" business logic in the i18n framework? Every serious framework I've used has supported placeholders, so at the application level you just select between singular and plural form and then the translation framework can handle arranging the words.

e.g. `items.length == 1 ? _t("%d item", items.length) : _t("%d items", items.length)` and then within your translation files you can specify translations that rearrange the phrase, like " %d" for languages where they are reversed.

(though usually of course, you would use much longer phrases, so that the translation is done in-context.)

Re: The kind of company I want to be a part of

#64

Post by maratc »

abraxas wrote: post #61
maratc wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more about inclination of the words that can't be replaced with a number. In English, it's easy: * 1 *file* sent But: * 2 *files* sent * 12 *files* sent * 21 *files* sent * 16,777,221 *files* sent. How does Polish go about that?

1 plik wysłany 2 pliki wysłane 12 plików wysłanych 21 plików wysłanych BUT 22 or 23 or 24 pliki wysłane BUT again 25 plików wysłanych 16'777'221 plików wysłanych

Is it still "16'777'222 pliki wysłane"?

Re: The kind of company I want to be a part of

#65

Post by commandlinefan »

Blackarea wrote: post #37

I literally couldn't care less. You can call it '1th of April' for all that i care if the actual functionality you offer is clean and fast I'll gladly accept!

I get where the author is coming from, but having grown up in the 80's, I always thought "1 item(s)" looked slightly _more_ professional since it followed the way printed documents were usually produced.

Re: The kind of company I want to be a part of

#66

Post by flatline »

codelikeawolf wrote: post #41
shermantanktop wrote: post #10

This is the brown m&m theory. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/why-did-van-hale... A trivial, superficial fact is assumed to be indicative of a much more substantial concern. For Van Halen, the candy dish indicated adherence to contract terms; here, pluralization indicates the integrity and values of an entire company. It’s a cute idea that suggests an easy way to understand something complex. But there’s…

My sister has worked as the operations manager for a large concert venue for several years and she has some great stories about contract riders. She regularly needs clarification on whether she needs to provide what preposterous thing they ask for. I think Lady Gaga asked for a goat, which ended up being in there to verify she read the whole thing, so no goat procurement was necessary. However, Sharon Osbourne (i.e.,…

Missed opportunity to procure a goat. When I’m doing project management like this, if I ever have a minute to come up for air between getting all the essentials in place, I will absolutely prioritize little things like that for my own amusement and, hopefully, that of the client. I would at least have gone as far as lining up a supplier, getting a quote, and letting the client know we’re locked and loaded with a goat if they really want to pull the trigger.

Re: The kind of company I want to be a part of

#67

Post by abraxas »

nickelcitymario wrote: post #56
abraxas wrote: post #5

Number "two" in Polish (depending on context): dwa, dwoje, dwie, dwóch, dwiema, dwom, dwojga, dwojgu, dwójka, dwójki, dwójkę, dwójką, dwójce, dwójko So that's just my mother tongue. It think your problem is a bit more complex than (s).

Holy moly, and I thought French (my mother tongue) was complicated due to conjugation. I'm fascinated by what possible context could call for this many variations on how you spell/pronounce a number. Any chance you know of a good article on this? (I could ask ChatGPT, but I'm trying to let go of that crutch.)

I'm not a linguist so I can't send any articles that explain the origins of this mess. But here are actual examples of usage:

dwa ptaki (two birds)

dwoje ludzi (two persons)

dwie dziewczyny (two girls)

idę z dwiema dziewczynami (I'm walking with two girls)

dałem kwiaty dwom dziewczynom (I gave flowers to two girls)

kanapa dla dwojga (a sofa for two - gender unspecified)

dałem śniadanie dwojgu (I served breakfast for two others)

dwójka to słaba ocena (two is a poor grade)

dwie dwójki to razem czwórka (two twos are four altogether)

dostałem dwójkę z Fizyki (I got a two in physics)

z dwójką przyjaciół poszliśmy do klubu (we went to the club with two friends)

w autobusie dwójce siedział pijany facet (there was a drunk fella on bus number two)

O, dwójko, nie wracaj już do mojego dziennika (Oh, two, don’t come back to my gradebook again)

Of course I don't consciously think about when to use the right conjugation. I just know it by heart and it's second nature but I can only give coherent rules to some of them.

Re: The kind of company I want to be a part of

#68

Post by ivape »

jordanb wrote: post #22

This is the Californian Ideology in a blog post. The implication that title and intro mean to imply is working for companies that build products that are not evil and hostile to their users. But the call to action is to.. embed logic in the programs to pluralize properly (in English). It's possible to write evil software that pluralizes words. It's possible to write beneficial software that does not pluralize words.…

It seems like a douchey post but it’s not. Just browsing the internet makes me regularly question how difficult it is keeping the tech industry full of people that give a shit. Software ate the world and along with it came a contingent that don’t care enough about it. The choppy first page load, the non-smooth scrolling, the ads janking in, shifting layout and content in unpredictable ways, and finally the bombarding of intrusive ads and popups where the dev didn’t even take a few minutes to construct a sensible UI compromise (yes, we need to show ads, but can we show the ads without anal fucking the user’s eyes? Yes possibly).

So yes, we have a real IDGAF issue in tech, and I can’t imagine this getting better because Gen Z all have a casual drug dealer “this just my side hustle” attitude, and Millennials will not a give a fuck because they are still pissed about the GFC and the cost of housing. The Leetcode people don’t give a fuck because they are burnt out on Leetcode and their entire identity is based on salary and very little to do with quality of their actual work.

There’s literally … and I mean this, there’s literally no one left to care.

Re: The kind of company I want to be a part of

#69

Post by abraxas »

maratc wrote: post #64
abraxas wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1 plik wysłany 2 pliki wysłane 12 plików wysłanych 21 plików wysłanych BUT 22 or 23 or 24 pliki wysłane BUT again 25 plików wysłanych 16'777'221 plików wysłanych

Is it still "16'777'222 pliki wysłane"?

yeah, the last digit matters. But sometimes the second last as well because of teen numbers:

22 pliki wysłane

12 plków wysłanych

Re: The kind of company I want to be a part of

#70

Post by Cthulhu_ »

I wouldn't want to be part of a company that uses a ternary to make an English only i18n thing. Please use a proper i18n framework that supports proper pluralization, as the Polish example highlights.

Keep in mind English is a super weird language, it's three languages in a trenchcoat with stuff like 'beef' coming from French and 'meat' from Germanic.

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