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Is the Internet Making Culture Worse?

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Re: Is the Internet Making Culture Worse?

#61

Post by embedding-shape »

GuinansEyebrows wrote: post #45
embedding-shape wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be a small slice of the section of people you'd be able to speak through the internet. I've probably, since starting to use the internet, spoken with more people in my lifetime than my whole linage before me, by just conversing on internet forums and emailing lists for decades (not that it's a leaderboard or anything, just illustrating the point). Besides, it'd probably get boring talking to the exact same…

> That would be a small slice of the section of people you'd be able to speak through the internet i mean, you did say "anything in the world" :) that could include a large community, if we decided to get offline more often. > Besides, it'd probably get boring talking to the exact same people always, new perspectives are always refreshing regardless of how much I disagree with them :) how is that different from being…

Overall it seems to me like different living situations, different geographical locations and different cultures end up creating people with vastly different perspectives. Put all of these people in the same location and after a while they think a bit alike, or at least "a bit alike" within a spectrum which gets smaller, and very uncommon to find those "outside of the spectrum" when you're actually in a physical space, limited to talking person by person.

I feel like the pervasiveness of the internet makes it much easier to find those perspectives that exists outside the norm, and I guess those are more interesting to me as I don't find those around me always, only under certain circumstances or even just happenstance.

So I guess my mind didn't go to "large community around me where I am" because I'd fear they still wouldn't posses, even less gain, those "fresh" perspectives that I seek.

I didn't feel you being accusatory FWIW, and always appreciate when people think about and question what I think, so thank you.

Re: Is the Internet Making Culture Worse?

#62

Post by satisfice »

andrewmutz wrote: post #18

Culture isn't getting worse, it's getting further and further towards what the masses want. Throughout history very few people got a voice about what culture was created or offered. In the 1700s, the culture that was created targeted the people who could pay for it: the aristocracy and the very richest of wealthy merchants (people who could afford to be patrons). Culture targeted them. In the early 1900s, the people…

Follow power. Follow money. There you will find elite culture.

Mass culture is a giant boiling pot of angry or silly experiments and obsessions.

Re: Is the Internet Making Culture Worse?

#63

Post by BrenBarn »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #41
FloorEgg wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The good: The internet enabled access to a wider diversity of cultures. The bad (I think?): Culture decoupled from geography, which makes it harder to connect with local community. The ugly: The attention economy optimizes for what is novel and upsetting, with a second order consequence of biasing culture to perceive everything in upsetting ways, even when it doesn't need to or benefit from that perspective. So cultu…

at least where it's active, i find meetup.com to be a good antidote to the "local" part of the situation. Meetup, in person, about the things that interest you :)

It's good in that way, but it's in the process of being enshittified.

Re: Is the Internet Making Culture Worse?

#64

Post by seec »

supersour wrote: post #10

If this article resonates with you in even the smallest way, I urge you to read Neil Postman's "Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business". I am currently re-reading this book and am amazed by the apparent accuracy of his analysis, which is that the mediums in which we communicate or express information (print vs. TV vs. TikTok) have a massively understated role in the quality and type…

That's nonsense. Funnily enough you are getting outraged by a nothing burger while complaining about emotional behavior.

The argument could be summed up as: "since there are fast food restaurants everywhere, quality restaurants do not exist anymore". This is demonstrably false and I wouldn't be surprised that they increase in supply at roughly the same rate.

You are confused because volume is dominated by the masses, but it has always been like that. The major difference is that back then things were much more siloed, and you wouldn't notice the masses mediocre content consumption habits. But it was always there, on TV, in terrible magazines, shitty books and poor journals, you didn't pay attention to them because those things were beneath you, but they already had many times the volume of the "good stuff".

Re: Is the Internet Making Culture Worse?

#65

Post by whackabump »

dingnuts wrote: post #16

> The 20th century, apparently, was the last time we had great art, literature, or music. this is totally absurd. I'm in middle age and the golden era of music for me is the late aughts, mostly bedroom recordings that never would have seen the light of day in the age of MTV. I might agree with the thesis of the piece overall but it's hard to continue after such an obviously asinine statement

Which recordings are you thinking of? Would love some examples to check out.

Re: Is the Internet Making Culture Worse?

#66

Post by hrimfaxi »

hrimfaxi wrote: post #50
quacked wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried to in my initial comment draft, but I couldn't really come to a satisfactory answer so I thought I'd just post the observation. I believe the average person today is far more apathetic about the parts of their own civilization that aren't explicitly political than ever before. Morality, cultural expression, architectural aesthetics, manners, fashion, product design, whatever. I think this slide into apathy pr…

I can't help but feel the shift to apathy is in part due to a cultural shift from a sense of building society together to a more exploitative view where people have to get what they can while they still can get it. The lack of motivation to produce Great Works feels related to the disconnect from a greater purpose/community. It all feels related in some way to the dearth of great statesmen. At least the Rockefellers…

This video [1] touches on the same theme. Its opening comparison of historic and modern lampposts is illustrative of the greater shift in culture.

In the modern day, when the public has the opportunity to create something dedicated to the public, the opportunity is squandered and used for trolling (like boaty mcboatface or the stick figure euro coin).

[1]: https://youtu.be/tWYxrowovts

Re: Is the Internet Making Culture Worse?

#67

Post by hrimfaxi »

cal_dent wrote: post #59
hrimfaxi wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help but feel the shift to apathy is in part due to a cultural shift from a sense of building society together to a more exploitative view where people have to get what they can while they still can get it. The lack of motivation to produce Great Works feels related to the disconnect from a greater purpose/community. It all feels related in some way to the dearth of great statesmen. At least the Rockefellers…

I think adjacent to this is an element of reduced risk taking from younger people because the stakes are much higher (or at least feel much higher). I've worked with so many smart and talented grads who have seemingly planned their lives/career to the nth degree, in a way that was certainly not that common in my broad circles when I was a similar age. From conversations with them, it all stems from the view of you ca…

> More so than ever, I think, people are more aware of optimising monetisation in all aspects of their lives, and that sort of results in more things being the same or only having minor deviation from what "works".

This infiltration of monetization is insidious. Even in my own idle thoughts I find myself wondering how I might profit off of something I threw together for fun. Or make a great cake and people say you should open a bakery. It's hard for people to imagine doing something for its own sake, let alone for no financial gain.

Re: Is the Internet Making Culture Worse?

#68

Post by FloorEgg »

BrenBarn wrote: post #63
maerF0x0 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

at least where it's active, i find meetup.com to be a good antidote to the "local" part of the situation. Meetup, in person, about the things that interest you :)

It's good in that way, but it's in the process of being enshittified.

How do?

Re: Is the Internet Making Culture Worse?

#69

Post by maerF0x0 »

FloorEgg wrote: post #68
BrenBarn wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's good in that way, but it's in the process of being enshittified.

How do?

Assuming you meant how so. I can comment to that.

Stuff like you have to pay as an attendee for things that used to be free, like to see who's attending, it costs a lot to run a group now (something like $200 per year?), and they pop up with ads/offers after many kinds of interactions like RSVPing

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