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Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

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61–70 of 174 posts

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#61

Whenever I read about robovac. I wonder gow good are these robot vacs really? Maybe it is just me, but surely would be less effort to hire a cleaner and they can do more than just vacuuming.

I think it’s one of the most idiotic devices anyone could own. Buy a normal vacuum cleaner for half the price, spend 10 minutes a week vacuuming your apartment, and you won’t come home and find that your cleaning robot spent the afternoon choking on a shoelace.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#62
IMO a company should lose all control over technology once you've purchased it. Doesn't matter if it's "smart" or not. If the company wants to do something like telemetry, they can buy a license from you for that data. See how they like it when the tables are flipped.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#63

A good time to point out https://github.com/Hypfer/Valetudo . I haven't tried it personally because my particular model of vacuum has some complicated and potentially destructive procedure to get the required access, but there's quite a few models where it can be installed easily.

I have it on two of my Roborocks and it rocks.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#64
post #62

IMO a company should lose all control over technology once you've purchased it. Doesn't matter if it's "smart" or not. If the company wants to do something like telemetry, they can buy a license from you for that data. See how they like it when the tables are flipped.

Can't you trivially reframe the initial purchase as being subsidized by that license? Your $200 smart knife sharpener would be $300 if it weren't recording audio 24/7 (for VAD, surely!)

I don't like it either but here we are

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#65
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It makes more sense that there is a line of code internally that kills the machine when it can't call home (which would be far less malicious). Would it be? Whether the line of code is on the server or the device, what's the difference?

He implied they were remoting in after he blocked network traffic. It could easilyl be a standard exception handling approache when it can't call home and fetch latest settings etc. It might not be malicious - not defending the architecture, just think that there is an assumption of intent here.

Whether they remote into his device or it kills itself is irrelevant except that if it's local code that's even worse, as they've programmed in future obsolescence. That is indefensible, full stop, do not pass go.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#66
First of all, it's Android Debug Bridge, which gives him full root access to the vacuum, wasn't protected by any kind of password or encryption.

Good. You bought it, you own it.

(I have no skin in this game --- my vacuum is as dumb as they come, and can be fixed with basic machine shop tools.)

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#67
post #64
post #62

IMO a company should lose all control over technology once you've purchased it. Doesn't matter if it's "smart" or not. If the company wants to do something like telemetry, they can buy a license from you for that data. See how they like it when the tables are flipped.

Can't you trivially reframe the initial purchase as being subsidized by that license? Your $200 smart knife sharpener would be $300 if it weren't recording audio 24/7 (for VAD, surely!) I don't like it either but here we are

Sure, that's basically how Kindle pricing works ($X with ads, or $X+$Y without ads) and it's infinitely better having the choice. If Amazon ever gets rid of the without ad version they will lose me as a customer overnight.

Likewise, there are a whole lot of products that don't have an "unsubsidized" version that I simply refuse to purchase (or have purchased and returned after confirming that they will not work when locked in IOT jail where they can't talk to the internet.)

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#68
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>>>> I expect the moment unsolicited data collection becomes a liability manufacturers will drop it like a hot potato. Possession of the data needs to be illegal. Here's how it could work. It's similar to how copyrights for music are enforced. A person whose data are found in someone's files or server can sue for "statutory" damages, which are levied on a per-offense basis.

>Here's how it could work. It's similar to how copyrights for music are enforced. A person whose data are found in someone's files or server can sue for "statutory" damages, which are levied on a per-offense basis. That's not how copyright lawsuits work though. For the typical person torrenting, it's because they were caught in the act of torrenting (eg. they had a torrent client in the swarm connecting from an ip th…

That's right. I'm not talking about copyright, but about a new restriction on possession of the data. The only parallel is the use of statutory damages as a remedy.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#69
post #67
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you trivially reframe the initial purchase as being subsidized by that license? Your $200 smart knife sharpener would be $300 if it weren't recording audio 24/7 (for VAD, surely!) I don't like it either but here we are

Sure, that's basically how Kindle pricing works ($X with ads, or $X+$Y without ads) and it's infinitely better having the choice. If Amazon ever gets rid of the without ad version they will lose me as a customer overnight. Likewise, there are a whole lot of products that don't have an "unsubsidized" version that I simply refuse to purchase (or have purchased and returned after confirming that they will not work when…

>If Amazon ever gets rid of the without ad version they will lose me as a customer overnight.

Didn't they already remove the option for a completely ad free prime video experience or am I hallucinating that? They have such a ridiculous hold on the e reader market I feel like it is just matter of the next down quarter.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#70

A good time to point out https://github.com/Hypfer/Valetudo . I haven't tried it personally because my particular model of vacuum has some complicated and potentially destructive procedure to get the required access, but there's quite a few models where it can be installed easily.

Recently discussed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45642571
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