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Tim Bray on Grokipedia

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Re: Tim Bray on Grokipedia

#61
Not sure it still does this but for awhile if you asked Grok a question about a sensitive topic and expanded the thinking, it said it was searching Elon's twitter history for its ground truth perspective.

So instead of a Truth-maximizing AI, it's an Elon-maximizing AI.

Re: Tim Bray on Grokipedia

#63
post #13
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To play devil's advocate: Grok has historically actually been one of the biggest debunkers of right-wing misinformation and conspiracy theories on Twitter, contrary to popular conception. Elon keeps trying to tweak its system prompt to make it less effective at that, but Grokipedia was worth an initial look from me out of curiosity. It took me 10 seconds to realize it was ideologically-motivated garbage and significa…

Wikipedia is probably in the running for one of the greatest contributions to public knowledge of the past 100 years, and that's a consequence of how it functions, warts and all. I don't care how good Grok is or isn't. I'm a fan of frontier model LLMs. They don't meaningfully replace Wikipedia.

I fully agree. Even assuming no forced ideological bias from Elon, I doubt it would be nearly as good. I still thought it could be an interesting concept, even if I had very low hopes from the start.

Re: Tim Bray on Grokipedia

#65
post #24
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To play devil's advocate: Grok has historically actually been one of the biggest debunkers of right-wing misinformation and conspiracy theories on Twitter, contrary to popular conception. Elon keeps trying to tweak its system prompt to make it less effective at that, but Grokipedia was worth an initial look from me out of curiosity. It took me 10 seconds to realize it was ideologically-motivated garbage and significa…

It's not controlled by a trusted actor so it doesn't matter how it happens to act at the moment. They could pull the rug at any future time and its almost better to gain trust now and cash in that trust later.

My expectations were extremely low, as were, and are, my expectations of Grok in general. Was just making an actual devil's advocate case.

Re: Tim Bray on Grokipedia

#66
post #30
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem of debunking right-wing misinformation is that it doesn't seem to matter. The consumers of that misinformation want it and those of us who think it's bad for society already know that its garbage. It feels like we've reached Peak Stupidity but it's clear it can (and likely will) get much worse with AI videos.

I think there is a problem sometimes that "debunkers" are often more interested in scoring points with secondary audiences (i.e. people who already agree with them) than actually convincing the people who believe the misinformation. Most people who believe bullshit were convinced by something. It might not have been fully rational but there is usually a kernel of something there that triggered that belief. They also…

[deleted]

Re: Tim Bray on Grokipedia

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Name one.

I'm not the grandfather commenter, I'm very much a leftist, but left, right, there's too many whose emotions or tribalism override their logic and make them deny what they see/come up with dumbass theories.

For a left example, there are people who theorize that the guy who missed putting a bullet in Trump's brain must've been a false flag operator. Although it must be mentioned that "leftie" conspiracy theories are mostly just on social media, while "right" ones end up being broadcast by congresspeople and senators, probably because they know their side will take them at face value..

Re: Tim Bray on Grokipedia

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proof? More than a couple anecdotes please.

How many more than a couple do you need? 20 anecdotes? 40 anecdotes? 100? How much bias is okay for you and the world?

I dunno. Give us at least some? Start with just one really mind blowing one. The implication is there is a big cabal imposing Wikipedia on the world. Given that, it should be easy enough to throw out some concrete examples of major impact.

Re: Tim Bray on Grokipedia

#69
post #13
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To play devil's advocate: Grok has historically actually been one of the biggest debunkers of right-wing misinformation and conspiracy theories on Twitter, contrary to popular conception. Elon keeps trying to tweak its system prompt to make it less effective at that, but Grokipedia was worth an initial look from me out of curiosity. It took me 10 seconds to realize it was ideologically-motivated garbage and significa…

Wikipedia is probably in the running for one of the greatest contributions to public knowledge of the past 100 years, and that's a consequence of how it functions, warts and all. I don't care how good Grok is or isn't. I'm a fan of frontier model LLMs. They don't meaningfully replace Wikipedia.

"Warts and all" says it all really. What are those warts? Who's responsibility are they?

Wikipedia is really not ideal for the LLM age where multiple perspectives can be rapidly generated. There are many topics where clusters of justified true beliefs and reasonable arguments may ALL be valid surrounding a certain topic. And no I am not talking about "flat earth" pages or other similar nonsense.

Re: Tim Bray on Grokipedia

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Believe it or not, me (not white, did not grow up in the West, had the faintest clue about Nazism) used to do what you would consider a "Nazi salute" when I'd see friends and wave to them from a distance. I don't know how I picked that up but it happened. I'm not saying that Musk is doing the same; but that one can be charitable and say he probably did not mean that. I mean, what does he stand to gain from doing so?…

At the time he was acting as the one of the largest political activists and donors for the Republican party, not as a businessman.
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