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Nim 2.2.6

nim-lang.org

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Re: Nim 2.2.6

#61

Post by austinjp »

miguel_martin wrote: post #37
tinfoilhatter wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's too bad that the BDFL of Nim (Araq / Andreas) treats the language like his personal compiler development playground. This has led to a hard fork of the compiler, many experienced and frustrated developers leaving the community and language behind, and an extremely fragmented ecosystem. He is also very difficult to work with and isn't very welcoming to newcomers. The community "leaders" / moderation team is also…

> language like his personal compiler development playground re personal compiler development playground: I don't see this for Nim 2. Nimony/Nim3 is more of a "playground", but rightfully so: he is creating a new major version of the language and aiming to improve the architecture of the compiler. > He is also very difficult to work with and isn't very welcoming to newcomers I don't have full context on the drama beh…

> Araq will state his personal & honest opinions, which may come off as abrasive or "un-welcoming" in your opinion. I don't agree with everything he says but that's OK.

Nope. This is a sop, an equivalent to the non-apology "I'm sorry you took what I said so badly".

Aggression masquerading as "honesty" has no place in any organisation that wants to be taken seriously.

It's most certainly not "OK" when Andreas' personal opinions are expressed in ad-hominem attacks.

Nim unfortunately has a toxic Dictator at the top, and his subordinates defend his behaviours. While this continues nobody should take Nim seriously.

Re: Nim 2.2.6

#62

Post by austinjp »

planetis wrote: post #57
tinfoilhatter wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's too bad that the BDFL of Nim (Araq / Andreas) treats the language like his personal compiler development playground. This has led to a hard fork of the compiler, many experienced and frustrated developers leaving the community and language behind, and an extremely fragmented ecosystem. He is also very difficult to work with and isn't very welcoming to newcomers. The community "leaders" / moderation team is also…

[flagged]

tinfoilhatter lists some specifics elsewhere in his thread.

Re: Nim 2.2.6

#65

Post by stefantalpalaru »

austinjp wrote: post #59
tinfoilhatter wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's too bad that the BDFL of Nim (Araq / Andreas) treats the language like his personal compiler development playground. This has led to a hard fork of the compiler, many experienced and frustrated developers leaving the community and language behind, and an extremely fragmented ecosystem. He is also very difficult to work with and isn't very welcoming to newcomers. The community "leaders" / moderation team is also…

Unfortunately this has been my experience. Andreas was extremely abrasive towards me personally, and views he expressed to me regarding climate change were bizarre and aggressive. His behaviour led me to ditch Nim and explore Go instead, and I couldn't be happier. Sadly Nim is a permanent no-go for me.

[dead]

Re: Nim 2.2.6

#66

Post by alain_gilbert »

austinjp wrote: post #59
tinfoilhatter wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's too bad that the BDFL of Nim (Araq / Andreas) treats the language like his personal compiler development playground. This has led to a hard fork of the compiler, many experienced and frustrated developers leaving the community and language behind, and an extremely fragmented ecosystem. He is also very difficult to work with and isn't very welcoming to newcomers. The community "leaders" / moderation team is also…

Unfortunately this has been my experience. Andreas was extremely abrasive towards me personally, and views he expressed to me regarding climate change were bizarre and aggressive. His behaviour led me to ditch Nim and explore Go instead, and I couldn't be happier. Sadly Nim is a permanent no-go for me.

> ...and views he expressed to me regarding climate change...

Is that for real? I bet I can find some chocolate chip cookie recipe that the Go team would disagree with me. I ain't ever using Go again.

Re: Nim 2.2.6

#67

Post by Intralexical »

tinfoilhatter wrote: post #15
cenamus wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With hard fork do you mean the 2.x.x version?

Apologies for not providing a link! https://github.com/nim-works/nimskull is the hard fork I was referring to.

Last non-bot commit was over 2 weeks ago, and it seems to be mostly 1 account working on it. I don't think it looks active enough to be the big schism it's made out to be?

Re: Nim 2.2.6

#68

Post by netbioserror »

QQ00 wrote: post #42
netbioserror wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Metaprogramming isn't exactly new. I guess the novelty is that its history in the systems language space is spotty, and has only recently become usable in the way a Lisper might want to use it.

what programming languages have the metaprogramming capabilities that a lisper would want to look at to learn/use it?

Nim, for one. It has an incredibly powerful macro and template system. But other languages with similar macro power include Elixir and Julia.

D has a generic system similar to Nim's, and a mixin system similar to Nim's templates, but doesn't have a powerful AST-manipulating macro system like the above languages.

Re: Nim 2.2.6

#69

Post by tinfoilhatter »

planetis wrote: post #63
austinjp wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tinfoilhatter lists some specifics elsewhere in his thread.

These aren’t specifics, it’s the same tired tactic: you disagree with me, so I’ll try to ruin your reputation.

Then offer specifics that contradict mine? It should be easy if all I'm doing is being a contrarian. There are at least a few comments in reply to this post that have echoed my experiences regarding unpleasant interactions with Nim's leadership and community.

I'd like nothing more than for Nim to succeed as a modern systems programming language. Unfortunately, giant egos and personalities constantly get in the way of that goal. There's certainly something holding Nim back from achieving widespread adoption, and if you want to suggest it's me and some sort of concerted effort to toss shade at the language and its evangelists, then that is your perrogative. It certainly isn't moving the language forward.

Re: Nim 2.2.6

#70

Post by tinfoilhatter »

Intralexical wrote: post #67
tinfoilhatter wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apologies for not providing a link! https://github.com/nim-works/nimskull is the hard fork I was referring to.

Last non-bot commit was over 2 weeks ago, and it seems to be mostly 1 account working on it. I don't think it looks active enough to be the big schism it's made out to be?

Nim itself has very few core developers. Comparing the number of developers involved in a hard fork to the number of Nim developers is silly, in my opinion at least.

The project has 21.5k commits authored, most of them oriented at replacing the existing compiler backend with a CPS-oriented one. Nim 3.0 is replacing the backend with one that is focused on CPS. There is no doubt that the developers responsible for the hard fork of Nim inspired Nim 3.0.

Yes, it very much is the big schism it's made out to be. I don't know what kind of activity level you expect, when the Nim language itself has few core developers working on it.

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