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Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

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Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#61

Post by ReptileMan »

stevehawk wrote: post #42
gpt5 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadian manufacturers (Sandoz and Apotex) are preparing to launch their own generic versions in early 2026. I bet many Americans would travel to Canada to buy it there (despite the legality concerns). The medications lasts 2 years in a refrigerator.

the shelf life is probably longer than that if you buy it in dehydrated form and don't hydrate it (but i have no idea)

So cocaine from the south, ozempic from the north, fetanyl from the west and the meth is homegrown. So USA just need some powder from europe to close the circle.

Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#62

Post by tempestn »

tavavex wrote: post #56

The whole story seems utterly insane to me. The fact that Novo Nordisk went back to ask for a refund of $250 they paid for the patent in 2017 shows that there was active intent behind this, this wasn't just some internal disconnect between payment systems that prevented the money from being sent to the government. Who at NN thought that saving, what, ~$1000 total was justified for this? I thought companies of this sc…

Insane to the point that it doesn't seem believable. Even if the patent was worthless it wouldn't have been worth their time to pursue that refund just for the $250.

Another comment here mentioned that patents in Canada come with strings on pricing. So it's possible there was an actual trade-off that was considered here.

Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#63

Post by reaperducer »

gpt5 wrote: post #18
jzebedee wrote: post #4

> Prof. Michael Hoffman from Toronto put me on to the Canadian Patent Database, where you can find that Novo did file a patent there for semaglutide. . .but the last time they paid the annual maintenance fee on it was 2018! > You can even find a letter where their lawyers send a refund request for the 2017 maintenance fee ($250) because Novo apparently wanted some more time to see if they wanted to pay it. > On the s…

Canadian manufacturers (Sandoz and Apotex) are preparing to launch their own generic versions in early 2026. I bet many Americans would travel to Canada to buy it there (despite the legality concerns). The medications lasts 2 years in a refrigerator.

I bet many Americans would travel to Canada to buy it there

Why travel? There are thousands of ads on TV, radio, and the internet each day for Canadian pharmacies that promise to ship whatever you need to the U.S.

Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#64

Post by gus_massa »

stevehawk wrote: post #42
gpt5 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadian manufacturers (Sandoz and Apotex) are preparing to launch their own generic versions in early 2026. I bet many Americans would travel to Canada to buy it there (despite the legality concerns). The medications lasts 2 years in a refrigerator.

the shelf life is probably longer than that if you buy it in dehydrated form and don't hydrate it (but i have no idea)

I guess you get more shelf life, but it's an injectable drug.

You probably have to disolve it in very clean water in a very clean container. Do you have to match the salinity and pH with the proprties of the blood? How much time must you stir it to ensure it's completely disolved? Do you have to add something to increase/reduce viscosity? Some alcohol in case there are a few bacterias or improve solubility? How long does the small homemade batch last in the fridge?

IIUC there is another version in pills, they may have a longer shelf life, or not. But ask a medical doctor before taking a ramdom medicine.

Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#65

Post by JumpCrisscross »

tavavex wrote: post #54
killingtime74 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry about the law think about the practical impact. It's now completely legal to ignore the patent in Canada so the price in Canada will plummet. Canadian pharmacies can legally sell it and Americans (and all other foreigners for that matter) traveling there can legally buy it. Unlike the criminal law, Novo nordisk would have to go after every single person individually and make the case that they are infring…

> Canadian pharmacies can legally sell it and Americans (and all other foreigners for that matter) traveling there can legally buy it. Well, about that... Aren't all variants of medications like these prescription-only? And in Canada you can't fill a foreign prescription without having a local doctor sign off on it, as far as I know.

> you can't fill a foreign prescription without having a local doctor sign off on it

This is how medical tourism typically works.

Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#66

Post by foofoo12 »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #14
jzebedee wrote: post #4

> Prof. Michael Hoffman from Toronto put me on to the Canadian Patent Database, where you can find that Novo did file a patent there for semaglutide. . .but the last time they paid the annual maintenance fee on it was 2018! > You can even find a letter where their lawyers send a refund request for the 2017 maintenance fee ($250) because Novo apparently wanted some more time to see if they wanted to pay it. > On the s…

I always wonder-in this case of such an epic company fuck up, does anyone ever get fired? Or is responsibility so diffuse that nobody is ultimately responsible? Pharma companies are really nothing more than holders of time-limited, expensive, exclusive IP. The number one priority should be to maintain those protections as long as possible. How could any patent be allowed to lapse, even if there was limited commercial…

> Or is responsibility so diffuse that nobody is ultimately responsible

It doesn't take a very large company for this to happen. I've seen it in a sub 50 person company. There is a task to be done but no one can do it because everyone involved is waiting for someone else to do something. It's like a Mexican standoff.

Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#67

Post by nextos »

bawolff wrote: post #38
0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wonder-in this case of such an epic company fuck up, does anyone ever get fired? Or is responsibility so diffuse that nobody is ultimately responsible? Pharma companies are really nothing more than holders of time-limited, expensive, exclusive IP. The number one priority should be to maintain those protections as long as possible. How could any patent be allowed to lapse, even if there was limited commercial…

Typically when people get fired for something like this they are just the scapegoat. A failure like this isn't just one dude forgetting, its a system failure where policies and checks failed. If it is solely up to one person that is a failure in and of itself.

Some people, including legal experts, claim it could have been intentional: https://www.legal.io/articles/5691258/Novo-Nordisk-Lets-Cana....

I was surprised Science didn't discuss this option. However, reader comments in Science do comment on this possibility.

The idea is that letting the patent lapse would avoid getting regulated by the Patented Medicine Prices Review Board.

I know several people working at NN, and it's quite chaotic and political, so I wouldn't rule out an internal oversight.

Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#68

Post by labcomputer »

killingtime74 wrote: post #11
pedalpete wrote: post #3

I thought I had a decent handle on patent law, but maybe I'm missing something here. Yes, the patent won't be valid for Canada, but you can't import a product into the US which would infringe on a US patent. So, though there may be a small amount that would slip through the cracks, it isn't as if anyone in the US can now manufacture Semaglutide and distribute it. Canada is such a small market, that many companies don…

Don't worry about the law think about the practical impact. It's now completely legal to ignore the patent in Canada so the price in Canada will plummet. Canadian pharmacies can legally sell it and Americans (and all other foreigners for that matter) traveling there can legally buy it. Unlike the criminal law, Novo nordisk would have to go after every single person individually and make the case that they are infring…

> Unlike the criminal law, Novo nordisk would have to go after every single person individually and make the case that they are infringing the American patent. This is all without the help of the police or customs, as a private civil matter.

I don't think that's quite right. One of the things that CBP does is inspect incoming shipments, and confiscate IP-infringing things.

Think about the recent Apple Watch SpO2 sensor patent shenanigans: The threat was to have CBP confiscate any infringing devices at the port of entry. I also remember that multimeters infringing on Fluke's ~~design patent~~ trademark have been blocked at the port of entry:

https://hackaday.com/2014/03/19/multimeters-without-a-countr...

Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#69

Post by [deleted] »

ReptileMan wrote: post #61
stevehawk wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the shelf life is probably longer than that if you buy it in dehydrated form and don't hydrate it (but i have no idea)

So cocaine from the south, ozempic from the north, fetanyl from the west and the meth is homegrown. So USA just need some powder from europe to close the circle.

[deleted]

Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#70

Post by stevehawk »

gus_massa wrote: post #64
stevehawk wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the shelf life is probably longer than that if you buy it in dehydrated form and don't hydrate it (but i have no idea)

I guess you get more shelf life, but it's an injectable drug. You probably have to disolve it in very clean water in a very clean container. Do you have to match the salinity and pH with the proprties of the blood? How much time must you stir it to ensure it's completely disolved? Do you have to add something to increase/reduce viscosity? Some alcohol in case there are a few bacterias or improve solubility? How long…

Bacteriostatic water is widely available and you hydrate it in the container it comes in. Its pretty easy. I promise you you probably know someone on a glp-1 that is already doing this.
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