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US falls out of 10 most powerful passports list for first time in 20 yrs

theguardian.com

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Re: US falls out of 10 most powerful passports list for first time in 20 yrs

#61

Post by [deleted] »

keiferski wrote: post #54
CaptainOfCoit wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The vast majority of people in the US still see their future in the US. I mean, obviously, otherwise they wouldn't be there in the first place. Just an anecdote, also with bias, but almost every American I've met outside of the US (from all walks of life, from uber rich to almost homeless) seems to agree with the idea that the US is approaching a "no turning back" point, and cites that as being the reason they move…

I think your sample is pretty biased, because that viewpoint doesn’t apply to me or any Americans I’ve met abroad. Skeptical or critical of America and American culture, sure, but I certainly didn’t move abroad because of those reasons. Most Americans abroad tend to be there because of work, or because their partners are from the country. The number of people able to move abroad because of recent political issues is…

[deleted]

Re: US falls out of 10 most powerful passports list for first time in 20 yrs

#62

Post by Forgeties79 »

sippeangelo wrote: post #35
jghn wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. It's shifted from an escapist fantasy about getting away from it all to a more literal definition of "escapist fantasy". if it weren't for family & friend ties binding us to our geographical area it'd already be a lot more serious. We're not *that* far from a low end FIRE situation, so a move to a more LCOL country could make a ton of sense and escape ... all of this.

From an EU perspective I would have been out of there in February. But what is it they say, again? "Grass is always browner on the other side"? It also helps being part of a minority that the sitting regime wants to exterminate to the very definition of the word.

It’s not as simple as hopping on a train and leaving. No one in my immediate family has citizenship in another country or some other easy path I can take advantage of. Most countries require you to live months out of the year in that country for years and/or overcome some other major hurdle. Canada filters based on your education, profession, criminal record, etc. and IIRC it takes upwards of 5 years to get citizenship. It’s not like I can just fill out an application, pay a small amount of money, and be done with it. That’s not even considering if you have kids. Whole different ball game.

I know you probably know all of this, yet your response is vastly oversimplifying the issue. You would’ve just quit your job, packed up your family and belongings, sold your house if you own one, uprooted your kid(s) if you’re a parent, said goodbye to any friends/family here, and left weeks into the administration for a country you aren’t a citizen of? Just like that?

If it was just moving to another state, even though that is also not without its challenges, I could see an argument for that. That’s probably more akin to what it’s like moving around Western Europe/the EU. But permanently leaving the US is no small matter.

Re: US falls out of 10 most powerful passports list for first time in 20 yrs

#64

Post by sojournerc »

khuey wrote: post #59
sojournerc wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having recently traveled through the UK as a US citizen, it was a 5 minute process in an app. Nothing to be concerned about. Honduras, where I travel frequently, already does fingerprints as the EU is about to do. It's just not a big deal or a barrier to travel. Currently going from Scandinavia to Northern continental Europe and it couldn't be easier. So much FUD for so little change.

It's not that it's a big deal, it's that these rankings are pointless because they say that US citizens can go to the UK visa free but not Vietnam when in practice the requirement to enter both countries is exactly the same (go on a website, fill out a form, and pay $20ish).

Yah, I'm not disagreeing. US passport is still very good, if only because of easy access to US embassies abroad in case of trouble. I don't mind a little paperwork to travel to other countries

Re: US falls out of 10 most powerful passports list for first time in 20 yrs

#65

Post by rayiner »

Argonaut998 wrote: post #55
rayiner wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I should be able to get citizenship in an EU county based on ancestry Imagine complaining about America and then fleeing to an ethnostate.

There are no ethnostates in Europe anymore unfortunately. Every European city is indistinguishable from New York these days

I can’t get Italian or Irish citizenship because I’m ethnically Bangladeshi. Many Americans, however, can get Italian or Irish citizenship, because they have grandparents born in those countries. Virtually all of these people are ethnically Irish or Italian—who else has grandparents born in Ireland or Italy? They are de facto ethnostates.

I certainly don’t begrudge them that—I’m grateful my people have their ethnostate. My ancestors have been in Bangladesh for 25,000 years—I shouldn’t (and in fact don't). need a visa to go back.

Re: US falls out of 10 most powerful passports list for first time in 20 yrs

#66

Post by whycome »

sojournerc wrote: post #48
khuey wrote: post #36

More applicable to the average American traveler's life than whether they can visit 180 or 181 countries without a visa is the rise of electronic travel authorization requirements from other countries. The UK imposed one earlier this year and the EU is set to do the same next year (though ETIAS seems perpetually delayed). While everyone involved (except Australia) insists that electronic travel authorizations are not…

Having recently traveled through the UK as a US citizen, it was a 5 minute process in an app. Nothing to be concerned about. Honduras, where I travel frequently, already does fingerprints as the EU is about to do. It's just not a big deal or a barrier to travel. Currently going from Scandinavia to Northern continental Europe and it couldn't be easier. So much FUD for so little change.

Do you think it’s a 5 min process for everyone?

Re: US falls out of 10 most powerful passports list for first time in 20 yrs

#67

Post by BirAdam »

rayiner wrote: post #29
BirAdam wrote: post #6

I agree that Dual Citizenship is a dream among a large plurality of Americans, but I don’t think it’s for Visa-free tourism. I think it’s because a growing number of Americans feel that the country is unstable and likely headed toward a failed-state status.

> I agree that Dual Citizenship is a dream among a large plurality of Americans I would be shocked if it’s even above 10%.

Well, 10% would be a “large plurality” considering that’d be 33 million people.

Re: US falls out of 10 most powerful passports list for first time in 20 yrs

#68

Post by keiferski »

BirAdam wrote: post #67
rayiner wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I agree that Dual Citizenship is a dream among a large plurality of Americans I would be shocked if it’s even above 10%.

Well, 10% would be a “large plurality” considering that’d be 33 million people.

Plurality means the largest option amongst other options. 33 million people is a lot, but it’s not a plurality (typically something like 30%) or a majority (over 50.1%.)

Re: US falls out of 10 most powerful passports list for first time in 20 yrs

#69

Post by BirAdam »

keiferski wrote: post #51
hypeatei wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And as chaotic and concerning as many political events may be, the idea that the US will become “a failed state” is pretty divorced from the actual reality Becoming a failed state overnight? Probably not, I agree. Midterm elections are approaching and the federal government has already shown its willingness to deploy the military to big cities for intimidation purposes. Also don't forget: our current President also…

There’s a very big difference between a failed state and life slowly getting worse, institutional rotting, etc. I really don’t foresee a scenario where America turns into Somalia or Haiti in the near future.

Nearly half of the country views the other almost half as fascist. The half viewed as fascist views the other as socialist/communist. The two have lost the ability to effectively communicate with one another. The spending on the military is bankrupting the country, and within a decade debt service will consume 100% of tax revenues. The monetary expansion is causing inflation, and lowering interest rates will worsen this. At the same time, idiotic trade policy levying tariffs is making things even more expensive. Rising political tension with a simultaneous diminution in economic conditions is the breeding ground for extremism. We already see the two halves struggling to get anything done in congress, so amelioration of these conditions is unlikely. How long does the most well armed society in history tolerate this?

Any country can swiftly become a failed a state when ruled by someone idiotic enough. The question for the USA is whether or not it can survive the current pressures it faces. There a social, political, economic, and geopolitical pressures on the country at the same time. Thinking that the USA could become a failed state isn’t far fetched at all.

“Collapse happens slowly at first, and then all at once”

Re: US falls out of 10 most powerful passports list for first time in 20 yrs

#70

Post by Swizec »

newswangerd wrote: post #58
Swizec wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it’s [US passport] one of only half a dozen passports that lets you visit the US visa free. That is just false. EU passports can travel to USA Visa free and that’s 27 countries right there. edit: Oh unless you count ESTA as a type of visa. You have to fill out a 5min always-approved form online.

I was counting the ESTA. I don’t have any experience with it, so you’ll have to pardon my ignorance.

Yeah I guess it depends on whether we mean practically or technically. EU countries travel to USA on a “visa waiver” so practically there are no restrictions. But technically you are issued a 90 day tourist visa upon arrival. The ESTA part was introduced to speed up processing by electronically submitting your info in advance so they can do a background check or whatever.
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