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Valorant's 128-Tick Servers (2020)

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Re: Valorant's 128-Tick Servers (2020)

#61
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OSRS players hate when they have to actually play the game. They just want to click the screen every 10 minutes while playing something else.

...what? the game is full of highly technical and demanding challenges which require "tick-perfect" inputs 2-5x per 0.6s game tick.

OSRS is a rhythm game. Fight me.

Re: Valorant's 128-Tick Servers (2020)

#62
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apex Legends is at 20 IIRC (My memory is from 2-3 years back on this one tho) CSGO was at 64 for the standard servers and 128 for Faceit (IIRC CS2 is doing some dynamic tick schenanigans unless they changed back on that) Overwatch is I think at 60

CS2 is mostly 64 tick from what I understand. The "sub-tick" stuff is timestamping actions that happen on a local frame before the next tick. So in theory the client feels perfectly responsive and the server can adjust for the delta between your frame and the tick. In practice it seems to have been an implementation nightmare because they've regularly shipped both bugs and fixes for the "sub-tick" system. The netcode…

It's actually incredible how CSGO was such a great game and it's been replaced (not deprecated, replaced!) by CS2 which is still inferior over 2 years after the launch.

Re: Valorant's 128-Tick Servers (2020)

#63
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not equivalent to "lobby time or end game animations" in other games. In Valorant (similar to Counter Strike), at the start of the game you have 60 seconds to buy your weapons and abilities for the round. Valorant/CS is typically a best-of-13, and before each round is a 60 second "buy" period.

In CS you can leave the buy zone immediately. I don't necessarily believe that Valorant's decision to fence players in their spawn for the first minute during the buy period is simply to save on server costs, especially because they realized that optimization possibility after the fact. Being able to buy your weapons quickly may have an element of skill, but it doesn't make for particularly interesting gameplay. They…

In CS you have a 20 second+ buy phase where you can't move.

Re: Valorant's 128-Tick Servers (2020)

#64
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not equivalent to "lobby time or end game animations" in other games. In Valorant (similar to Counter Strike), at the start of the game you have 60 seconds to buy your weapons and abilities for the round. Valorant/CS is typically a best-of-13, and before each round is a 60 second "buy" period.

In CS you can leave the buy zone immediately. I don't necessarily believe that Valorant's decision to fence players in their spawn for the first minute during the buy period is simply to save on server costs, especially because they realized that optimization possibility after the fact. Being able to buy your weapons quickly may have an element of skill, but it doesn't make for particularly interesting gameplay. They…

In CS you have 15 seconds to buy, which is more than enough for any non-newbie.

Re: Valorant's 128-Tick Servers (2020)

#65
post #42

I wonder if any game servers are implemented in Erlang?

You'll never get a modern FPS gameserver with good performance written in a GC language. Erlang is also pretty slow, it's Python like performance. Very far from C#, Go and Java. The other reason is that the client and the server have to be written in the same language.

> The other reason is that the client and the server have to be written in the same language.

This isn't true at all.

Sure, it can help to have both client and server built using the same engine or framework, but it's not a hard requirement.

Heck, the fact that you can have browser-based games when the server is written in Python is proof enough that they don't need to be the same language.

Re: Valorant's 128-Tick Servers (2020)

#66
You can mess with the code all day long, but you're not getting away from raw latency.

The modern matchmaking approach groups people by skill not latency, so you get a pretty wild mix of latency.

It feels nothing like the old regional servers. Sure the skill mix was varied, but at least you got your ass handed to you in crisp <10ms by actual skill. Now it's all getting knife noscoped around a corner by a guy that rubberbanded 200ms into the next sector of the map already while insulting your mom and wearing a unicorn skin

Re: Valorant's 128-Tick Servers (2020)

#67

128 ticks per second servers. (And lo, suddenly the article's thesis is inherently clear.) A "tick", or an update, is a single step forward in the game's state. UPS (as I'll call it from here) or tick rate is the frequency of those. So, 128 ticks/s == 128 updates per sec. That's a high number. For comparison, Factorio is 60 UPS, and Minecraft is 20 UPS. At first I imagined an FPS's state would be considerably smaller…

Also for comparison, the Runescapes (both RS3 and Oldschool Runescape) have a 0.6 tick/second system (100 ticks/minute). It works rather well for these games, which I guess highlights that some games either a) can get away with high latencies depending on their gameplay mechanics, or b) will evolve gameplay mechanics based on the inherent limitations of their engines/these latencies. RS3 initially leaned into the 0.6s tick system (which is a remnant of its transitions from DeviousMUD to Runescape Classic to RS2) and eventually developed an ability-based combat system on top of what was previously a purely point-and-click combat system, whereas OSRS has evolved new mechanics that play into this 0.6s tick system and integrate seamlessly into the point-and-click combat system.

Having played both of these games for years (literally, years of logged-in in-game time), most FPS games with faster tick systems generally feel pretty fluid to me, to the point where I don't think I've ever noticed the tick system acting strange in an FPS beyond extreme network issues. The technical challenges that go into making this so are incredible, as outlined in TFA.

Re: Valorant's 128-Tick Servers (2020)

#68
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Fortnite is allegedly 30 ticks per second.

Fortnite has to handle 100 players on the same process, very different from 128hz @10players max.

That's not an excuse to give up on performance. The map is also much bigger which spreads people out.

Re: Valorant's 128-Tick Servers (2020)

#69
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Fortnite is allegedly 30 ticks per second.

Fortnite has to handle 100 players on the same process, very different from 128hz @10players max.

Nowadays it's more like 20 players and 80 bots, so a lot less networking stuff going on, and the bot AI is so basic that I doubt it has a significant impact on server performance unless it's very badly implemented.

Re: Valorant's 128-Tick Servers (2020)

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not equivalent to "lobby time or end game animations" in other games. In Valorant (similar to Counter Strike), at the start of the game you have 60 seconds to buy your weapons and abilities for the round. Valorant/CS is typically a best-of-13, and before each round is a 60 second "buy" period.

It's the idea that if they leave more players idling in a lobby, but period, or animation, that it costs them less. It's a deceptive way to sell people less game.

> It's a deceptive way to sell people less game.

That's a dumb take. The buying phase is an integral part of the game mode. And the game is free.

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