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Circular Financing: Does Nvidia's $110B Bet Echo the Telecom Bubble?

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61–70 of 218 posts

Re: Circular Financing: Does Nvidia's $110B Bet Echo the Telecom Bubble?

#61

The biggest issue with Nvidia is their revenue is not recurring but the market is treating their stock as it were, which is correlated with all semi stocks, with a one-time massive CAPEX investment lasting 1-2 years. Simple as this - as to why its just not possible for this to continue.

NVDA stock does not trade at a huge multiple. Only 25x EPS despite very rapid top line growth and a dominant position at the eve of possibly the most important technology transition in the history of humankind. The market is (and has been) pricing in a slowdown.

most important technology transition in the history of humankind but Nvidia itself is not leading the software part? Are they selling shovels or why would they give that part of being the head develop the AGI and GOD?

Re: Circular Financing: Does Nvidia's $110B Bet Echo the Telecom Bubble?

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NVDA stock does not trade at a huge multiple. Only 25x EPS despite very rapid top line growth and a dominant position at the eve of possibly the most important technology transition in the history of humankind. The market is (and has been) pricing in a slowdown.

most important technology transition in the history of humankind but Nvidia itself is not leading the software part? Are they selling shovels or why would they give that part of being the head develop the AGI and GOD?

They just committed to invest $100b (!) in OpenAI and said $100b is only the start.

Re: Circular Financing: Does Nvidia's $110B Bet Echo the Telecom Bubble?

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you aren't talking about the green transition, whatever technology transition you have in mind is obviously second most important at best.

If we get ASI it will figure out how to do the green transition for us!

This is peak techno-solutionism

Re: Circular Financing: Does Nvidia's $110B Bet Echo the Telecom Bubble?

#64
post #18

Fiber networks were using less than 0.002% of available capacity, with potential for 60,000x speed increases. It was just too early. I doubt we will see unused GPU capacity. As soon as we can prompt "Think about the codebase over night. Try different ways to refactor it. Tomorrow, show me your best solution." we will want as much GPU time at the current rate as possible. If a minute of GPU usage is currently $0.10, a…

This is such a short sighted take glaringly ommitting a crucial ingredient in learning or improvement - both for humans or machines alike: feedback loops.

And you can't really hack / outsmart feedback loops.

Just because something is conceptually possible, interaction with the real rest of the world separates a possible from an optimal solution.

The low hanging fruits/ obvious incremental improvements might be quickly implemented by LLMs based on established patterns in their training data.

That doesn't get you from 0 to 1 dollar, though and that's what it's all about.

Re: Circular Financing: Does Nvidia's $110B Bet Echo the Telecom Bubble?

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NVDA stock does not trade at a huge multiple. Only 25x EPS despite very rapid top line growth and a dominant position at the eve of possibly the most important technology transition in the history of humankind. The market is (and has been) pricing in a slowdown.

What do you think is going to happen to their earnings when CAPEX slows?

Their earnings will certainly decline or at least decelerate if capex slows. I’m just saying, if the market wasn’t pricing in a slowdown, NVDA would be trading at 40-60x next year EPS, not 25x.

Re: Circular Financing: Does Nvidia's $110B Bet Echo the Telecom Bubble?

#66
post #31
post #18

Fiber networks were using less than 0.002% of available capacity, with potential for 60,000x speed increases. It was just too early. I doubt we will see unused GPU capacity. As soon as we can prompt "Think about the codebase over night. Try different ways to refactor it. Tomorrow, show me your best solution." we will want as much GPU time at the current rate as possible. If a minute of GPU usage is currently $0.10, a…

> I doubt we will see unused GPU capacity I'd argue we very certainly will. Companies are gobbling up GPUs like there's no tomorrow, assuming demand will remain stable and continue growing indefinitely. Meanwhile LLM fatigue has started to set in, models are getting smaller and smaller and consumer hardware is getting better and better. There's no way this won't end up with a lot of idle GPUs.

>Meanwhile LLM fatigue has started to set in

Has it?

I think there is this compulsion to think that LLMs are made for senior devs, and if devs are getting wary of LLMs, the experiment is over.

I'm not a programmer, my day job isn't tech, and the only people I know who express discontent with LLMs are a few of programmer friends I have. Which I get, but everyone else is using them gleefully for all manner of stuff. And now I am seeing the very first inklings of completely non-technical people making bespoke applets for themselves.

From OpenAI, programming is ~4% of chatGPTs usage. That's 96% being used for other stuff.

I don't see any realistic or grounded forecast that includes a diminishing demand for compute. We're still at the tip of adoption...

Re: Circular Financing: Does Nvidia's $110B Bet Echo the Telecom Bubble?

#67
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we get ASI it will figure out how to do the green transition for us!

This is peak techno-solutionism

If we are not headed to ASI, the spending will slow down and the problem will solve itself.

Re: Circular Financing: Does Nvidia's $110B Bet Echo the Telecom Bubble?

#68
post #25

I think the fundamental issue is the uncertainty of achieving AGI with baked in fundamentals of reasoning. Almost 90% of topline investments appear to be geared around achieving that in the next 2-5 years. If that doesn’t come to pass soon enough, investors will loose interest. Interest has been maintained by continuous growth in benchmark results. Perhaps this pattern can continue for another 6-12 months before fati…

Not sure why you're getting downvoted. If you speak with AI researchers, they all seem reasonable in their expectations. ... but I work with non-technical business people across industries and their expectations are NOT reasonable. They expect ChatGPT to do their entire job for $20/month and hire, plan, budget accordingly. 12 months later, when things don't work out, their response to AI goes to the other end of the…

> If you speak with AI researchers, they all seem reasonable in their expectations.

An extraordinary claim for which I would like to see the extraordinary evidence. Because every single interview still available on YT form 3 years ago ...had these researchers putting AGI 3 to 5 years out ...A complete fairy tale as the track to AGI is not even in sight.

If you want to colonize the Solar System the track is clear. If you to have Fusion, the track is clear. AGI track ?

Re: Circular Financing: Does Nvidia's $110B Bet Echo the Telecom Bubble?

#69
In reference 14 we read

> However, what’s become clear is that OpenAI plans to pay for Nvidia’s graphics processing units (GPUs) through lease arrangements, rather than upfront purchases

I wish someone here could explain it to a dummy like me. Nvidia tells OpenAI: heres some GPUs, can you pay for them over 5 years. How is this an "investment" by Nvidia? That reference keeps calling this an investment, but what they describe is a lease agreement. Why do they call it an investment? What am I missing?

Re: Circular Financing: Does Nvidia's $110B Bet Echo the Telecom Bubble?

#70

With all the major players like Amzn, Msft and Alphabet going for their own custom chips and restrictions on selling to China it will be interesting to see how Nvidia does. I personally would prefer China to get to parity on node size and get competitive with nvidia. As that is the only way I see the world not being taken over by the tech oligarchy.

The custom chips don’t seem to be gaining traction at scale. On paper the specs look good but the ecosystem isn’t there. The bubble popping and flooding the market with CUDA GPUs means it will make even less sense to switch.
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