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Increasing your practice surface area

indiehackers.com

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Re: Increasing your practice surface area

#61
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think he meant to not try. I think he meant you shouldn't have to try. Trying implies some resistance or conformity. To him, art and creation was something that was there and natural. You just did it. You were mad with it [1]. It reminds me of nights when I was a teen hacking away at some computer games or writing my first emulator. There was no class, no jira tickets, no books. Just a teen struck with a madn…

As the saying goes: don’t write unless you can’t not write. There are so many better ways to spend your time. Pushing a boulder uphill is hard. If it never gets over the hump and starts pulling, find a different boulder!

I think the problem statement is: How do you know when to Let Go of the current boulder?

The poem suggested many many many possible when. Here's one: "unless it comes out of / your soul like a rocket,".

Unfortunately (or fortunately), in life, there is no methodology to prove that a given search problem is futile (e.g. NP-complete)... so we have to take our chances and choose. I believe that's the beauty of life: choice.

Re: Increasing your practice surface area

#62

This is new level of snake oil. When you're not selling your own snake oil, but trying to piggyback off of other people. Burn out speedrun 101. If you want to keep your sanity, you need to find your own passion, not try to emulate others (especially with crazy routines like the examples).

Author here. I've spent a decade drinking my own "snake oil" (the advice in this essay), and I've only now committed it to writing so that others can apply it or ignore it as they wish. I haven't burned out. Instead, I find my work fulfilling, endlessly novel, and valuable to others. Does this do anything to change your mental model?

No.

My 2 cents: article like these need to be presented with a big red disclaimer for folks who tend to obsess over things like ambition, prestige, fame.

Trying to emulate the greats is like trying to emulate WW2 pilot during the Battle of Britain. Sure, you might become one, but if odds are against you then there’s nothing you can do.

Idle time is extremely important for psyche and feeding it to your obsession will eventually drive you insane if you can’t achieve what you want.

On top of that, you’re not really providing any advice. You’re not explaining why they had the drive, what motivated them to do it in the first place. How do they maintain their life’s, how did they overcome difficulties, what families and environments they come from. You’re essentially shaming the reader for not being driven enough. As is being driven and motivated are the only things that you need to succeed.

I wouldn’t say it better than https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45442479

* Breath

* Touch grass

* Breath again

* Create a plan for yourself, follow it and don’t obsess over things

Re: Increasing your practice surface area

#63
post #34

The thing that doesn't click in articles like this is the advice section afterwards. Do you think the people described thought about how to increase their practice surface area? No, they were simply /interested/. And part of the reason they were interested was because of natural talent! Do you want to know how to increase your practice surface area? Find things you're interested in. But the reality is that many peopl…

> Do you think the people described thought about how to increase their practice surface area? No, they were simply /interested/. In fact, many of them did think about it. Many of them designed, tested, experimented, and tweaked their approaches to their crafts endlessly throughout their lives. It can be comforting (because it lets us off the hook) to think that masters of their craft all follow the "just do it" etho…

Came here to write this. To add to that, the book "The Art of Learning" is a great example of this; Joshua Waitzkin tells how his approach to learning saw him reach the pinnacle of both Chess and Tai Chi. From the outside it might just seem like a "genius" who just so happened to have innate talents for both of these highly disparate forms of competition, but his story paints a different picture.

My own approach to learning is very similar, and that's before I read this book. But it was not an approach that came naturally to me. I was never good at school. I was never good at paying attention to things I didn't see a _reason_ to pay attention to. But I realized early on that my propensity for "hyperactive behavior" (as they called it at school in the early 90's) meant I couldn't rely on the "standard" way of learning to work for me, and that if I wanted to learn the things I did care about, I needed to find my own way.

This is in no way me trying to brag, but to give some context to why I challenge this kind of mindset whenever I'm faced with it, including (and without much success) in my own mother who keeps bringing up "I wonder who you inherited this skill from" whenever I learn something new, let me list some of the activities other people tell me I'm talented in:

* Software architecture and design

* Indie game development, including 2D and 3D engines from scratch in multiple languages as well as game design

* Graphic design

* Playing the piano

* Multilingualism (Norwegian, English, German, Dutch, Japanese)

* Videogames -- I'm particularly good at Smash Bros. Melee

* Hiking

* Body control - I can do push-ups while hand standing

* Conversation and hanging out - I make people laugh and have a good time because I have a lot of topics of interest to keep conversation flowing, and I set aside my ego to make sure the group has fun as a whole

Again, I'm not bragging, because I'm not a master in any of these disparate activities, and I also firmly believe this is something almost everyone can do. There is no "genetic" or inherited talent here. I was terrible at all these things and had to apply myself and experiment with constantly adaptive reinforcement techniques to get good at every single one of them. I grew up with asthma, but started practicing martial arts in spite of it. If I have a talent, it's simply curiosity. Everything else was an uphill struggle where I spent longer getting _OK_ at every single activity than most, but because I kept at it, I eventually got better than the average.

And one of the major factors of that is increasing my practice surface area in everything, which often ends up overlapping existing knowledge in surprisingly deep and fascinating ways, which in turn keeps me interested and curious. It's a feedback loop of learning.

Re: Increasing your practice surface area

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't disagree this poem more. > if it's hard work just thinking about doing it, > don't do it If it's hard work just thinking about doing it, it's a very good sign that it's something worth doing. (I know I shouldn't take motivating quotes literally)

I have a rule that for any profound statement there exists an equally profound contradictory statement.

It's not necessarily a problem - both resonate with different people in different situations.

Well, except that Bukowski/Yoda quote. It's literally too short to be meaningful.

Re: Increasing your practice surface area

#65
I'm currently building the product for my startup - I'm hoping to launch in the next few months. I'm very grateful to IndieHackers for showing me how to make that happen, but when I look at the website now, I can't help but feel that it's jumped the shark.

At the top of the page, there's a link labelled Starting Up that takes you to a page with links to articles that taken together form a Guide to Starting Up. Those links, and those articles, represent the entire value of the IndieHackers website. There's a lot of value in those articles, but the rest of the website provides no value.

Members of the IndieHackers community talk about their 'shovel companies' - typically things like AI-powered marketing services, or the like. This is nonsense: the real shovel companies in the SaaS space are cloud providers and payment processors. Indie hackers claiming to have made a shovel company aren't Levi Strauss selling sturdy trousers to prospectors, they're urchins offering to help dig in plots in exchange for a bit of bread.

IndieHackers itself has become one of these urchins, exhibiting increasing desperation to show ongoing relevance. Skill at software development isn't the thing that's holding most indie hackers back; what's holding them back is that they don't know any good problems to solve. There's an awful lot of money out there waiting to be spent on simple CRUD apps that don't yet exist. You don't need to push the limit of what's possible with computers to make money; you just need to go out into the world to find an actual problem.

Re: Increasing your practice surface area

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't disagree this poem more. > if it's hard work just thinking about doing it, > don't do it If it's hard work just thinking about doing it, it's a very good sign that it's something worth doing. (I know I shouldn't take motivating quotes literally)

I never understood why people want to work so hard on things they are not good at. On the surface it seems obvious that you should do that. But I would rather put that time into getting even better at the stuff I am already good at.

I think this tends to happen naturally because the feedback loop works better, but there are some things that just hook you and if you can get through the grind they pay-off is just so, so much sweeter.

Re: Increasing your practice surface area

#67
post #34

The thing that doesn't click in articles like this is the advice section afterwards. Do you think the people described thought about how to increase their practice surface area? No, they were simply /interested/. And part of the reason they were interested was because of natural talent! Do you want to know how to increase your practice surface area? Find things you're interested in. But the reality is that many peopl…

> The real advice is to learn to accept yourself as you are, whether you're an obsessive or not.

Accepting yourself as you are is the opposite of practicing to get better at something.

Re: Increasing your practice surface area

#68
post #34

The thing that doesn't click in articles like this is the advice section afterwards. Do you think the people described thought about how to increase their practice surface area? No, they were simply /interested/. And part of the reason they were interested was because of natural talent! Do you want to know how to increase your practice surface area? Find things you're interested in. But the reality is that many peopl…

> The real advice is to learn to accept yourself as you are, whether you're an obsessive or not. Accepting yourself as you are is the opposite of practicing to get better at something.

I see what you're getting at, but I'd disagree. I think accepting who you are also comes with commitment to pursue the things you're interested in, because non-acceptance would be "ignoring this part of me I wanted to pursue but didn't think I should".

Re: Increasing your practice surface area

#69
post #34

The thing that doesn't click in articles like this is the advice section afterwards. Do you think the people described thought about how to increase their practice surface area? No, they were simply /interested/. And part of the reason they were interested was because of natural talent! Do you want to know how to increase your practice surface area? Find things you're interested in. But the reality is that many peopl…

Interested is the wrong word. Motivated is a better one, with interest being a subcategory of motivation.

The kind of intrinsic practice is even easier today than it was back then because we carry powerful computers in our pocket. If, like Orwell, you want to be a writer, you can literally work on it anywhere at any time. If you want to learn a language, you can spend time practicing it. If you want to learn music or art, the tools for explicitly practicing those things are in your actual pocket.

“Talent” is a myth. We all have our aptitudes, but in most subjects that only gets you a small advantage. Maybe you can remember Spanish vocab better than me, but if I practice every day and you don’t, you’ll reach the limits of “talent” quickly. Putting in the reps is the most important part of learning anything. The irony is that when you DO get good at something people forget that you were ever bad at it, and they will quickly dismiss your hard work as talent.

In high school, I had an ongoing argument with my dad about this. I got really into music and practiced daily for hours, wanting to be good enough to play in a band. By the time I graduated, I wasn’t bad. My dad would pontificate about which relative I had inherited this talent from, and I would get annoyed because it undermined the 100s of hours I spent locked in a music room. It did NOT come easy; I wanted to be able to do something and worked my ass off to get there.

Re: Increasing your practice surface area

#70
post #34

The thing that doesn't click in articles like this is the advice section afterwards. Do you think the people described thought about how to increase their practice surface area? No, they were simply /interested/. And part of the reason they were interested was because of natural talent! Do you want to know how to increase your practice surface area? Find things you're interested in. But the reality is that many peopl…

I've been reading about expertise and deliberate/purposeful practice, starting with "Peak" by Ericcson.

Experts, as a rule, augment their practice with a coach, and they never stop doing that. The quintessential example is the olympian.

So, that is how they increase their practice surface area.

I think interest is also generally relevant, but it's not the core in established fields: coaching is.

I am interested in unestablished fields too, which may be fundamentally interest driven. Although IMO that interest may be more about establishing frontiers than the specific topic.

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