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LLMs are the ultimate demoware

blog.charliemeyer.co

61–70 of 128 posts

Re: LLMs are the ultimate demoware

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's nice that you think it's clear and responsive, but I think it [1] needs to be validated by an expert in both the material and education. Or we need some way to show that people have actually learned the topic. People sometimes prefer explanations that are intuitive and familiar but not accurate. Meanwhile, there are math education resources like iXL that maybe cost a little money but the lessons and practice pro…

It’s interesting how people insist math requires expert validation when it’s literally the most self validating subject there is. The instinct to gatekeep even something as mechanistically checkable as algebra says more about insecurity in education than it does about rigor.

"5.11 or 5.9 which number is greater?" was a meme query a few months ago to ask an LLM as it would confidenly prove how 5.11 is greater - so yes, we do need expert validation!

Re: LLMs are the ultimate demoware

#63
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it always correct?

I've used LLMs to try to help digest some advanced maths. Eg. "Explain the number field seive with lots of numeric examples". Yes the numeric examples often don't work. The consequences of this though are similar to a failed web search. As in it's not a big deal and when it does work it's very helpful. Maths is one of those things with so much objectivity that even the LLM usually realizes it has failed to create a n…

A LLM can't "realize" anything. Unless you are saying that LLMs are aware.

Re: LLMs are the ultimate demoware

#64
post #7

It's wild to me that, of all the things to call LLMs out for, this piece has chosen to include math tutoring. I've been doing Math Academy for a bit over 6 months now, going from (essentially) Algebra II through Calc II (integration by parts, arc lengths, Taylor expansions) and LLMs have been a huge part of what has made that effective: * Clear explanation of concepts that respond to questions and reformulate when th…

It's nice that you think it's clear and responsive, but I think it [1] needs to be validated by an expert in both the material and education. Or we need some way to show that people have actually learned the topic. People sometimes prefer explanations that are intuitive and familiar but not accurate. Meanwhile, there are math education resources like iXL that maybe cost a little money but the lessons and practice pro…

There is a bit of oversimplification here.

Understanding if the student has actually learned is a competency piece, in math it’s mostly show your work and/or did you have the right answer.

The continued top down attempts to boil the whole sea with LLMs is part of the current problem.

It’s getting pretty good though for focused tutoring.

For students, models setup to tutor too often are trying to boil a sea (all education) instead of a kiddie pool. The reality is that more and more seems like k-6 if not k-12 students can be supported.

If we look at the EdTech space from the bottom up, namely learner-centric, there is both a real need and opportunity.

For school age students, math largely has not changed in hundreds of years, and doesn’t change often. Either you understand it or have to put in the work.

There’s no shortage of human created written teaching resources. A teacher could create their own touring assistant based off their explanations.

Alternatively, an open source textbook could be inputted. There’s a reason why training or fine tuning on books has caused lawsuits - it can increase accuracy many fold.

Teachers are burdened with repetitive marking, there’s def a place for personalized marking tools.

We know LLMs respond differently to different input. Their superpower is being able to regenerate an input as many different many different ways, which can include personalization.

Just because one has experimented with LLMs doesn’t mean there isn’t a way to get a result from them just because we haven’t been able to understand how.

If examples of the chat logs or prompts can be provided of what did or didn’t work it helps have a conversation without the subjectivity.

Mathematics is a great lens to see that folks are trying to get non-deterministic software to behave like all the deterministic software we’ve had before, instead of finding the places where non-deterministic strengths can shine.

It’s not all or nothing, or one or the other.

Re: LLMs are the ultimate demoware

#65
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was linked from the homepage: https://www.mathacademy.com/how-our-ai-works But more importantly if tptacek says they use LLMs and is a user of the platform that's good enough for me.

Everything described there sounds like old-school adaptive algorithms. I don't see anything about generative AI or LLMs. I asked Google if MA does LLM tutoring and got back this answer: > Math Academy does not offer Large Language Model (LLM) tutoring. While the company advertises itself as "AI-powered," this is in reference to a machine-learning-based adaptive learning system, not an interactive LLM tutor. And here…

You're right, I may have misinterpreted what tptacek said: he said he was using LLMs and that he was using Math Academy but I interpreted that as "Math Academy includes LLM features" - actually it's equally likely he's using Math Academy and having LLMs tutor him on the side.

(Confirmed I got this wrong: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45439001)

Re: LLMs are the ultimate demoware

#66
post #7

It's wild to me that, of all the things to call LLMs out for, this piece has chosen to include math tutoring. I've been doing Math Academy for a bit over 6 months now, going from (essentially) Algebra II through Calc II (integration by parts, arc lengths, Taylor expansions) and LLMs have been a huge part of what has made that effective: * Clear explanation of concepts that respond to questions and reformulate when th…

Offtopic, but do you have any comparison to math academy to something like Khan, or other platforms? MA seems a bit expensive for someone just wanting to improve a general skill, but perhaps it's well worth it? I thought Khan was also investing in similar AI offerings, so i'm curious how they intersect

Re: LLMs are the ultimate demoware

#67

LLMs are useful if you use them properly and they are getting better everyday. Arguing against LLMs is like arguing against a shovel. Just use it right.

That's the theory, if the vast majority of people use it wrong the problem is the tool, not the user.

Re: LLMs are the ultimate demoware

#68
post #35
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's look at every PR on GitHub in public repos (many of which are likely to be under open source licenses) that may have been created with LLM tools, using GitHub Search for various clues: GitHub Copilot: 247,000 https://github.com/search?q=is%3Apr+author%3Acopilot-swe-age... - is:pr author:copilot-swe-agent[bot] Claude: 147,000 https://github.com/search?q=is%3Apr+in%3Abody+%28%22Generate... - is:pr in:body ("Gener…

What's the acceptance rate on such PRs?

Add is:merged to see.

For Copilot I got 151,000 out of 247,000 = 61%

For Claude 124,000 / 147,000 = 84%

For Codex 1.7m / 2m = 85%

Re: LLMs are the ultimate demoware

#69
post #7

It's wild to me that, of all the things to call LLMs out for, this piece has chosen to include math tutoring. I've been doing Math Academy for a bit over 6 months now, going from (essentially) Algebra II through Calc II (integration by parts, arc lengths, Taylor expansions) and LLMs have been a huge part of what has made that effective: * Clear explanation of concepts that respond to questions and reformulate when th…

It's nice that you think it's clear and responsive, but I think it [1] needs to be validated by an expert in both the material and education. Or we need some way to show that people have actually learned the topic. People sometimes prefer explanations that are intuitive and familiar but not accurate. Meanwhile, there are math education resources like iXL that maybe cost a little money but the lessons and practice pro…

That's exactly what Math Academy is: I'm operating with a grounded set of correct, validated content, and using LLMs to (1) fill in more conceptual explanation and (2) check where I went off the rails when I get things wrong. You can't play the "hallucination" card here. An LLM can reliably do partial fraction decomposition, spot and solve an ODE that admits direct integration, calculate an arc length, invert a matrix, or resolve a gnarly web of trig identities. If you say a current frontier model can't do this --- and do it from OCR'd screencaps! --- I'll respond that you haven't tried.

I can't think of a single instance where O4 or GPT5 got one of these problems wrong. It sees maybe 6-12 of them per day from me. I've been doing this since February.

Re: LLMs are the ultimate demoware

#70
post #3

"then fails to consistently help in completing tasks when deployed for daily use." This article seems to be baitware trying to push some outdated perspective. LLMs have only gotten more powerful over the last 3 years (being able to do more things), and so far not much has stopped them from becoming even more powerful (with the help of reasoning, other external methods, etc) in the future. "daily use" is so subjective…

What evidence is there that AGI will come “soon”?

They can "feel it", like people "felt" we'd have commercial space flight "soon" after we put people on the moon, it's all delusion and wishful thinking.
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