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How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

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Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#61

Post by brnt »

scblock wrote: post #28
brnt wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is DNG tooling these days? It's been ages since I checked, but it used have near zero support in (FLOSS) tools (including ffmpeg/imagemagick). You even had to use Adobe's Windows converter.

DNG is well supported by the typical raw libraries in my experience. My Ricoh records DNG natively, and I work with the results in rawtherapee and darktable. I am less sure about ffmpeg or imagemagick as I don't really automate raw processing.

I see however that DNG support is still read-only-ish, e.g. libraw still can't convert to DNG [1]. Most camera's still output raw in their own formats, which may not and probably should not be what you store them as, long term.

[1] https://github.com/ImageMagick/ImageMagick/issues/6344

Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#62

Post by atombender »

vadansky wrote: post #12
the_lucifer wrote: post #6

As someone who shoots on Fujifilm (XT-3), this was an intensely fascinating read. Thanks, now I have half a mind to sit down and re-implement this code, just to get a feel of how it works.

I've been thinking of buying that camera for a while, do you recommend it? Do you have anything to say that will finally push me over the edge to actually but it?

You can get the X-T4 relatively cheaply. Unlike the T3, it has a fully articulated screen and in-body image stabilization.

I have the X-T4 and X-E3, both of which purchased used for much below the price of the newest models (about $800 each). No regrets, and I love both equally.

The E3 is my stripped-down pocketable camera; with the Fuji 27mm pancake lens, I can fit it in a jacket pocket or shoulder strap bag, and it weighs almost nothing, less than my iPhone. This combo is pretty much equivalent to the immensely popular X100IV, but much better value for money.

The T4 is the bigger camera I use for nature and macro shooting. Tons of settings, more advanced features (focus bracketing and "picture in picture" focus closeup are important to me), more advanced dials. It's heavier and bulkier, but also more solid (IBIS, weather sealing).

For some reason Fuji appears to consider yellow focus peaking (which IMHO is the best colourbfor it) to be a high-end feature reserved for the T4, which is annoying.

Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#63

Post by atombender »

guillego wrote: post #25
Analemma_ wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently upgraded from an XT-3 to an XT-5, but loved my XT-3 and would still recommend it as a good purchase if you can find a decent deal on one in good condition. Fuji’s AF is not the best in the business, so I wouldn’t recommend one if you’re planning on using it for e.g. sports photography, but apart from that the XT series has no real downsides. The physical dials for ISO+exposure+shutter speed are fantastic a…

I have an XT-1 from 2015 (still working!) and recently started considering upgrading to an XT-5 but I'm a little hesitant to buy a "new" camera first released in 2023 that still retails for almost the same price as two years ago. I'm so torn between just going for it and waiting (who knows how long) for the X-T6 to come out. Perhaps I should just try to find a good deal on an X-T4.

The X-T4 is fantastic. See my other comment in this thread.

The "new release premium" is just too high, in my opinion. Cameras aren't getting better so fast that you aren't better off with the previous model.

Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#64

Post by _7acn »

crab_galaxy wrote: post #42
_7acn wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I own 4 Fujifilm cameras and personally, I'd recommend being VERY careful and thinking hard about this purchase. This isn't the same Fujifilm as it used to be. The company was once known for its "Kaizen" approach, which has long since disappeared. Prices are now inflated because they're riding on popularity. Autofocus in Fuji is simply weak. The question is whether you actually need such a camera for anything. With a…

> The question is whether you actually need such a camera for anything. With a new smartphone that has multiple lenses, out-of-the-box photos will turn out MUCH NICER than from a camera, because initial processing is built into the software. Digital cameras don't have this. You need to take RAW and work pretty hard on it to make the photo look as good as what a smartphone delivers right away. You’re completely neglec…

This is not true. Yes, these are characteristic color grading profiles, but if you want your photo to actually look proper, you still need to process the RAW file and you can add the Fujifilm profile as an extra on top of that.

There's NOTHING special about these profiles. It's a matter of taste. If you're buying a mirrorless camera, it means you have ambitions to take photos at a reasonably high level. Nobody who wants to be at a high level will shoot JPGs.

Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#65

Post by _7acn »

barnabee wrote: post #50
_7acn wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I own 4 Fujifilm cameras and personally, I'd recommend being VERY careful and thinking hard about this purchase. This isn't the same Fujifilm as it used to be. The company was once known for its "Kaizen" approach, which has long since disappeared. Prices are now inflated because they're riding on popularity. Autofocus in Fuji is simply weak. The question is whether you actually need such a camera for anything. With a…

I don’t find this at all, even compared to my (now rather old) X-T1. For quick shots to remember an event or night out, modern phone cameras are fine. For anything that I’d call photography and actually want to print, display, etc. I rarely if ever get results I’m really happy with from a phone camera. If you’re in any way interested in photography beyond taking a few snaps at parties and on holidays, I highly recomm…

Yes, if someone's goal is to learn photography and they're also interested in it from a technical point of view, then these are definitely cameras worth considering. My main point is that if someone just wants to "take nice photos" they should seriously think about whether to buy a good phone instead.

Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#66

Post by _7acn »

bcraven wrote: post #59
dsego wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This aligns with my experience as well. The bigger sensor does generate pictures that look more crisp in big prints or zoomed in. In theory it should gather more light, but in reality, phones stitch together multiple exposures, and frequently produce nicer low light images without much noise. For sharing on social media, it's hard to notice a difference. For me its event worse with the x100 since the wide lens doesn'…

I know of no phone camera that can produce the portraits of an X100s 23mm lens at f/2.

Here you're talking about shallow depth of field which is desirable for portraits. But show me a camera that will have in JPG the dynamic range that you have in a smartphone by default? Show me a camera that will have as LARGE depth of field as smartphones have thanks to their small sensor.

These are all pros and cons depending on the scenario, but a phone has one advantage - it's small and you have it always with you.

Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#67

Post by sunnybeetroot »

atombender wrote: post #62
vadansky wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been thinking of buying that camera for a while, do you recommend it? Do you have anything to say that will finally push me over the edge to actually but it?

You can get the X-T4 relatively cheaply. Unlike the T3, it has a fully articulated screen and in-body image stabilization. I have the X-T4 and X-E3, both of which purchased used for much below the price of the newest models (about $800 each). No regrets, and I love both equally. The E3 is my stripped-down pocketable camera; with the Fuji 27mm pancake lens, I can fit it in a jacket pocket or shoulder strap bag, and it…

Why yellow and not red? I find red much easier to see. Also I tend to agree about the X-E line but it’s been refreshing to use the X100IV with the inbuilt ND filter and not worry about changing lenses.

Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#68

Post by _7acn »

harrall wrote: post #56
_7acn wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I own 4 Fujifilm cameras and personally, I'd recommend being VERY careful and thinking hard about this purchase. This isn't the same Fujifilm as it used to be. The company was once known for its "Kaizen" approach, which has long since disappeared. Prices are now inflated because they're riding on popularity. Autofocus in Fuji is simply weak. The question is whether you actually need such a camera for anything. With a…

Gonna be honest: if you have to frequently use RAW to make Fuji photos look good, it may be a skill issue.

Wrong. If you have to frequently use film simulations to make camera photos look good, it may be a skill issue.

Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#69

Post by LegionMammal978 »

graemep wrote: post #39
tecleandor wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DNG license might include some legal stuff that probably they don't want in their devices. https://helpx.adobe.com/camera-raw/digital-negative.html#dng

What is the problem there? It essential provides an unlimited license any Adobe patents needed to implement DNG, and revocation if you assert a patent against Adobe related to DNG.

It provides an unlimited license specifically for reading and writing spec-compliant files, which could conceivably open you up to issues if you have implementation errors or attempt to extend the spec.

Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#70

Post by atombender »

sunnybeetroot wrote: post #67
atombender wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get the X-T4 relatively cheaply. Unlike the T3, it has a fully articulated screen and in-body image stabilization. I have the X-T4 and X-E3, both of which purchased used for much below the price of the newest models (about $800 each). No regrets, and I love both equally. The E3 is my stripped-down pocketable camera; with the Fuji 27mm pancake lens, I can fit it in a jacket pocket or shoulder strap bag, and it…

Why yellow and not red? I find red much easier to see. Also I tend to agree about the X-E line but it’s been refreshing to use the X100IV with the inbuilt ND filter and not worry about changing lenses.

I don't know, but I recommend trying it, you might be surprised.

The X100IV is awesome, of course, and if I could afford it, I'd probably own one. But it's more than 2x what I paid for my X-E3.

A fixed-lens camera is built around the limitation of having just that lens. To me, if I only bring the 27mm with me when shooting, then that is exactly like a fixed-lens camera. But it also means I have the option to take it on a bird-watching trip using my Fujifilm 70-300mm lens — something you just wouldn't be able to do with an X100. That flexibility is worth something, which in my opinion makes the lower price of the X-E range even more of a bargain compared to the X100.

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