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No reachable chess position with more than 218 moves

lichess.org

61–70 of 195 posts

Re: No reachable chess position with more than 218 moves

#61

They dont really spell it out but they mean "from this position the player has 218 possible legal moves to choose from"

I thought it was "How many moves in a game does it take to reach this position"

But this an interesting problem too. More specifically is there an upper bound for the number of moves in a legal chess game?

Re: No reachable chess position with more than 218 moves

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it was "How many moves in a game does it take to reach this position"

But this an interesting problem too. More specifically is there an upper bound for the number of moves in a legal chess game?

Not explicitly, but when you consider the "cannot repeat the same board layout three times" rule, the number of moves possible in a game does have a limit.

Re: No reachable chess position with more than 218 moves

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it was "How many moves in a game does it take to reach this position"

But this an interesting problem too. More specifically is there an upper bound for the number of moves in a legal chess game?

there certainly is if you consider 50 moves rule.

And you can derive an easy upper bound from that as 50x8x8x2 (basically each 50 moves you make a pawn move)

if you only consider 3 moves repetition and not 50 move rule then this is harder and the number becomes one of those crazy combinatorical numbers.

Re: No reachable chess position with more than 218 moves

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it was "How many moves in a game does it take to reach this position"

But this an interesting problem too. More specifically is there an upper bound for the number of moves in a legal chess game?

I believe 8848.5 under modern rules (with the 75-move rule, as in FIDE rules since 2014). There's a reasonably rigorous demonstration here:

https://wismuth.com/chess/longest-game.html

Re: No reachable chess position with more than 218 moves

#65
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same, which also damages my personal policy of reading the link before any HN comments.

Huh. I also have that personal policy. Yet this time I jumped first to the comments before reading the article. I’m not certain why. Perhaps I subconsciously intuited that the ambiguity in the headline might be resolved by some of you smart people. Brains are weird; mine is, anyway.

The right™ order is to check the comments before the article, but to read the article before commenting.

Re: No reachable chess position with more than 218 moves

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this an interesting problem too. More specifically is there an upper bound for the number of moves in a legal chess game?

Not explicitly, but when you consider the "cannot repeat the same board layout three times" rule, the number of moves possible in a game does have a limit.

The 3 repetition draw rule has no bearing on the number of possible chess positions. And for the number of possible moves in a game the 50 moves with no capture or pawn move rule is a much more stringent limit.

BTW, the 3 repetition rule only comes into play is one of the players invokes it ... games can legally have more than 3 repetitions, but not more than 5 repetitions.

Re: No reachable chess position with more than 218 moves

#67
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this an interesting problem too. More specifically is there an upper bound for the number of moves in a legal chess game?

I believe 8848.5 under modern rules (with the 75-move rule, as in FIDE rules since 2014). There's a reasonably rigorous demonstration here: https://wismuth.com/chess/longest-game.html

Thanks for that link! I was looking for that answer a few years ago, but I couldn't find anyone who had carried it out all the way through (with the cost of "switching control" fully accounted for), nor many people who were even aware of the 75-move rule.

Re: No reachable chess position with more than 218 moves

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this an interesting problem too. More specifically is there an upper bound for the number of moves in a legal chess game?

there certainly is if you consider 50 moves rule. And you can derive an easy upper bound from that as 50x8x8x2 (basically each 50 moves you make a pawn move) if you only consider 3 moves repetition and not 50 move rule then this is harder and the number becomes one of those crazy combinatorical numbers.

The 50 move rule is a rule of chess so it must be considered.

The 3 repetition rule is an opportunity for one of the players to declare a draw, but games can continue beyond that. The mandatory draw rule is 5 repetitions. In any case, the 50 move rule is far more limiting as to the number of moves in a game, since repetitions are necessarily neither pawn moves nor captures (the whole point of the 50 move rule being limited to those is that they are irreversible).

Re: No reachable chess position with more than 218 moves

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this an interesting problem too. More specifically is there an upper bound for the number of moves in a legal chess game?

there certainly is if you consider 50 moves rule. And you can derive an easy upper bound from that as 50x8x8x2 (basically each 50 moves you make a pawn move) if you only consider 3 moves repetition and not 50 move rule then this is harder and the number becomes one of those crazy combinatorical numbers.

> And you can derive an easy upper bound from that as 50x8x8x2 (basically each 50 moves you make a pawn move)

This is not high enough, because the 50 move rule also resets when a piece is captured.

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