Why sue? Why not impound and fine like they would illegally parked vehicles?
The cameras are not meaningfully worth a whole lot of money.
And neither is a beater but they still get impounded.
Evanston orders Flock to remove reinstalled cameras
61–70 of 277 posts
Re: Evanston orders Flock to remove reinstalled cameras
#62Even though it's become commonplace in the last 20 years, I'm still shocked to see how companies can pretty much ignore the law, do whatever they want, and have everyone involved shielded from any kind of significant consequences. In situations like this, I think the person at the top of the chain that told employees to perform the illegal installations should be arrested and charged. On top of that, the company shou…
Well, if we consider it fine for people to commit crimes like shoplift, rob, or assault people it seems fairly normal to permit groups of people to violate the law too. Lots of fans of Luigi Mangione and this hasn't directly killed anyone yet. I'd say it's just a general tolerance to the idea that the rules we have are baroque and anything goes when trying to reach your aims. This seems fairly cross politically unify…
> Most are happy to have the law violated to hurt their political opponents.
Way to make me feel like an outcast.
Re: Evanston orders Flock to remove reinstalled cameras
#63https://deflock.me/
One of the closest points in my area is Made/Operated by: "Unknown".
Very helpful. In my general area there are almost 100.
Re: Evanston orders Flock to remove reinstalled cameras
#64Even though it's become commonplace in the last 20 years, I'm still shocked to see how companies can pretty much ignore the law, do whatever they want, and have everyone involved shielded from any kind of significant consequences. In situations like this, I think the person at the top of the chain that told employees to perform the illegal installations should be arrested and charged. On top of that, the company shou…
First of all, I think that this instinct to fine-'em, screw-'em, etc. is profoundly authoritarian. It is extremely important for a civil society not only that predictable laws are put into place, but also that predictable enforcement of those laws exist. I jaywalk almost every day. I understand that if a cop sees me jaywalk, he will fine me. I also understand that if the cop wants to put me in jail for jaywalking, he…
> It is extremely important for a civil society not only that predictable laws are put into place, but also that predictable enforcement of those laws exist.
At the moment, this doesn't exist either. Particularly on the low end of offenses, selective enforcement and racial profiling run rampant, and not just in the US.
Any decent developed society takes laws that have gone outdated off the books entirely - the exceptions are the US and the UK, about the only nations in the world that didn't have at least one revolution, war, putsch or peaceful regime change that was used to reboot the entire legal system from scratch and incorporate decades if not centuries of progress.
Re: Evanston orders Flock to remove reinstalled cameras
#65Is there a good public list of Flock Safety cities? Would be particularly interesting to see where they are in blue states.
They installed some here at a Home Depot parking lot right when the ice raids started. It was weird that only the home deport owned portion of the parking lot got them which lead to some investigation into who put them up and sure enough flock has a contract with HD. Blue city in SoCal with lots of migrant laborers.
So, if I understand you correctly, Home Depot was actively collaborating with ICE to get their best customer lures arrested? How the fuck does that make sense?!
Re: Evanston orders Flock to remove reinstalled cameras
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pretty casual about committing federal crimes.
Not an american, here in germany you'd barely get a fine if they even bother to prosecute you for using a jammer for a few minutes here and there. But I don't yet have to deal with ai powered surveillance cams by private companies in my city.
if the EU maintains it's current trajectory, you'll be dealing with this or a similar problem in the future.
Re: Evanston orders Flock to remove reinstalled cameras
#67> This decision came after Illinois Secretary of State [...] discovered that Flock had allowed U.S. Customs and Border Protection to access Illinois cameras in a “pilot program” against state law, and after the RoundTable reported in June that out-of-state law enforcement agencies were able to search Flock’s data for assistance in immigration cases.
This illustrates the textbook argument for why mass surveillance is bad: these tools can quickly end up in the wrong hands.
Play silly games, win silly prizes.
Re: Evanston orders Flock to remove reinstalled cameras
#68That city should just make it legal that the citizens can paintball or spray those cameras anytime and anywhere.
This will escalate - every new car on the road comes with a bevy of cheap cameras integrated - I get 360 degree views when backing up from my 2018 Chevy Bolt. It's really only a matter of time before license plate scanning computers get integrated - there's already a cellular modem integrated into the vehicle - I don't use or pay for that feature, but it's an opportunity.
Cop and other enforcement cars routinely get plate scanner cameras built in these days, so... that's already there.
Re: Evanston orders Flock to remove reinstalled cameras
#69Is there a good public list of Flock Safety cities? Would be particularly interesting to see where they are in blue states.
They installed some here at a Home Depot parking lot right when the ice raids started. It was weird that only the home deport owned portion of the parking lot got them which lead to some investigation into who put them up and sure enough flock has a contract with HD. Blue city in SoCal with lots of migrant laborers.
Home Depot has had an incredibly aggressive retail theft problem for about half a decade now across virtually every market.
Their response of putting 10 ALPRs in each store's parking lot and locking up everything seems rational based upon what I've seen. There's something about stealing Milwaukee tools that gets certain groups of people very excited. They even have some tool manufacturers designing activation at checkout mechanisms to discourage theft.
I have a hard time believing this stuff is making them any money or is a secret government arrangement. It seems purely about loss prevention in the case of HD. They have been an easy target up until recently.
Home Depot seems like the one compelling win I've seen so far regarding these cameras. You'd have to be pretty crazy to try and steal tools these days. The speed with which law enforcement can react to these signals is incredible. I don't necessarily like the implications for other things but it does make shopping in certain retail environments feel much safer.
So, cameras in the HD and Apple Store parking lots seem acceptable to me based upon the risk these businesses endure. Cameras in public I don't like, but without them the ones in private wouldn't be able to accomplish as much (I.e., interception of felony retail theft suspects while they still have all of the evidence on them).
Re: Evanston orders Flock to remove reinstalled cameras
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Confiscate the shares. No compensation This is better than corporate death penalties but still more complicated than fines. Massive fines are the answer. > Solves the “too big to fail” problem as the company continues to exist, the ceo ends up in jail and the owners end up broke So do fines and bankruptcy. CEO won’t go to jail, but they’ll spend the rest of their lives fighting shareholder lawsuits. Feed them to th…
> CEO won’t go to jail, but they’ll spend the rest of their lives fighting shareholder lawsuits. One important lesson to be learned from the past 20 years: if you're sued, don't go to court. If you're dragged to court, say "fuck you, I'm not going and I'm not paying." If you have enough money, they literally will not do anything. They'll just have endless sham court cases that you're free to ignore and there will nev…
I think you're reading the wrong lesson from this. If someone cares enough to take you down, your strategy isn't just useless, it's actively harming you. It's a "for my friends everything, for my enemies the law" situation.
A better lesson is that you can be "on the radar" but far enough from the central hotspot that you are not a priority. Alternatively you need someone to have your back and be your heatshield while you keep trudging along.