Wow. It's been 3 hours. This is the first submission I've seen that mentions spaced repetition that doesn't have a comment trashing spaced repetition!
Learning Persian with Anki, ChatGPT and YouTube
61–70 of 96 posts
Re: Learning Persian with Anki, ChatGPT and YouTube
#62Author, you're not properly engaging with the language. Instead of learning to type (and simply adding vowel marks), you complain about letters having different forms akin to someone saying q and Q are different and then write a post about an actively worse approach. You also didn't understand that cards in anki can have more than 2 sides. Making Persian writing->Latin transcription then Latin transcription->English…
EDIT: to be more specific, language like "You complain" and "You also didn't understand" can appear abrasive and scornful. Removing them would probably make the effect you're hoping for (proper learning techniques for the language) more meaningful.
Re: Learning Persian with Anki, ChatGPT and YouTube
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
You should be using all the words. If you want to learn words about cooking, buy cookbooks. I want to read all material. I want to read extremely esoteric subjects from UNAM's press, I want to read Cervantes, I want to read cookbooks, I want to read Mexican street fotonovelas from the 70s. > using preselected word lists makes sense I have never used Anki for word to word translation, because there is no Spanish word…
That makes sense as a long-term goal, but if you're still in the earlier stages it's much more fun to learn a variety of words and focus on the most common ones. Get depth at first, and later you can fill in the holes with e.g. a cookbook. I know you consider it pseudoscience to force creating your own cards, but I do find premade decks result in a lot more leeches. How do you avoid them when relying on these thousan…
Also, one of the many parts of the spaced repetition lore that I do agree with is that if you keep getting the same card wrong in the same way over and over again, you're building up a weird habit that is going to be tough to break. Better to trash it. [edit: you can't do this with the conjugation cards, though. If you keep failing a particular conjugation card, you need to stop, write it down, and spend time with it individually. All of those are important, except maybe the unique conjugations of europeizar.]
> if you're still in the earlier stages it's much more fun to learn a variety of words and focus on the most common ones.
I believe of course in the have fun rule above all others, because this is an ultramarathon, not a sprint. You're going to have to get enjoyment from the process if you're going to stick to it at all. I get a "dopamine hit" every time I get a card right.
If you wanted to sprint, the best way is probably doing the full old-school* Glossika method where you go over the day's sentences, you listen and repeat, you listen and transcribe, then you repeat on your own and record. The next day you start by listening to your recordings and figuring out how to improve them, rerecord, go over your new sentences, rinse and repeat for 3-4 hours a day. You can certainly hammer a language into your head that way, but you probably need a tiger mom threatening to withhold food or something to keep you doing that for 6 months.
About creating your own cards - I've done thousands (not language related), and I've learned and remembered things with them, but there's no science behind writing a good card. Everybody is on their own and flailing, and asking themselves "what would Woźniak do?" rather than coming up with formal rules and testing them. I've got ideas, and there are a few datasets (of people doing spaced repetition sessions over time) available, but I think that treating cards as a black box, discovering the relationships between them over time (through finding which cards are passed and failed together), and creating some sort of internal market of cards between adversarial LLMs could generate good decks, and generate mappings that would allow failing or passing one card to affect many other cards rather than the single card alone.
The best thing about FSRS to me is the decision to stop asking the user about process, and just ask them about goals. Some of the Anki community seem on the verge of giving up on the self-grading, too, and just moving to pass/fail, which I couldn't support more. I never used anything but pass/fail, with the settings from refold (https://refold.la/simplified/) which have been obsoleted by FSRS, which works better with pass/fail only. As I said before, a lot of how these things were designed from the beginning was simply cargo-culting Woźniak.
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[*] I haven't tried the new school online version, but I'm sure they have varieties in the same mode.
Re: Learning Persian with Anki, ChatGPT and YouTube
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
I speak Farsi and I am really curious about some of these blunders if you could share
Using the word pistan instead of sina when talking about "chicken breast" (the cut of meat)
As an Iranian-American, I've made similar blunders in trying to communicate with my Mexican friends and colleagues. "Hey amigo, do you need a chauqeta?" I would ask to the eruption of laughter. If you look up "Chaqueta", translation services will happily tell you it means "Jacket". Don't trust it. Apparently to some Mexicans it also means jerking off.
Re: Learning Persian with Anki, ChatGPT and YouTube
#65Always fun to see two of my worlds collide! I studied Dari own my own and at college as an elective, and ended up taking a job with the ICRC to investigate ISAF war crimes in Afghanistan right after I graduated These days Dari is my most comfortable second language (and I have quite a few of them) I'm not sure if, given I had to start from scratch again, I'd go down this route - the description and screenshots seem v…
Re: Learning Persian with Anki, ChatGPT and YouTube
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are some people suggesting that, however at a small scale and not taken that seriously by many. What difference does it make? What about all the other words that underwent the sound change? Also, some nuanced people can keep languages and politics separate. The sound shift isn't even entirely clear to be due to arabic influence, how come it turned into 'f' and not 'b' such as the arabic approximation? How come…
It used to be called Persian in English, the media changed it to Farsi to reduce it's "prestige". If you knew English and you are old enough you even remember the shift (1990s–2000s).
This is not true.
It happened after the 1979 Iranian revolution, when Iranians abroad wanted to call it Farsi out of cultural pride, using the same word in their own language, rather than Persian which is the "foreign" word for it (from Greek/Latin). It was literally reclaiming the name. Then the media followed suit out of respect. It was cultural sensitivity.
Today some non-Iranians and therefore groups like the UN prefer "Persian" because variants are also spoken in Afghanistan and Tajikstan, and Farsi is a reference to the Fars province of Iran, so Persian can be seen as more neutral. But then again, not many people complain about "English" being associated with England and not being neutral enough to Americans or Indians. So it's definitely complicated. But it's also definitely not about trying to diminish anybody's "prestige".
Re: Learning Persian with Anki, ChatGPT and YouTube
#67I could learn Danish with Anki, YouTube, ChatGPT and a teacher in evening school. I think Danish is even harder to learn then Persian. ;-) Anki is a great concept!
People do underestimate how much a good teacher and putting in the work can make a difference. Money well invested if you actually NEED to use the language and will have opportunity to.
Re: Learning Persian with Anki, ChatGPT and YouTube
#68Always fun to see two of my worlds collide! I studied Dari own my own and at college as an elective, and ended up taking a job with the ICRC to investigate ISAF war crimes in Afghanistan right after I graduated These days Dari is my most comfortable second language (and I have quite a few of them) I'm not sure if, given I had to start from scratch again, I'd go down this route - the description and screenshots seem v…
Re: Learning Persian with Anki, ChatGPT and YouTube
#69Author, you're not properly engaging with the language. Instead of learning to type (and simply adding vowel marks), you complain about letters having different forms akin to someone saying q and Q are different and then write a post about an actively worse approach. You also didn't understand that cards in anki can have more than 2 sides. Making Persian writing->Latin transcription then Latin transcription->English…
Your post is actually very helpful, but comes across as harsh and condescending. I think you should reconsider how you approach this. EDIT: to be more specific, language like "You complain" and "You also didn't understand" can appear abrasive and scornful. Removing them would probably make the effect you're hoping for (proper learning techniques for the language) more meaningful.
It’s important to be a bit strong willed against this type of comment in the internet and stick to your instincts. Not to say good things cannot be learned out from others, but finding out what works for your particular needs through self experiment is really important, and on the long run time exposure to the target language trumps over methods.
Some examples:
- Learn grammar from a good book vs. absorb it naturally from material.
- The [tool I’m using] is better than [tool I’ve never tried].
- The [method I used for a month] is better than [old method I used for years].
- The [tool I’m selling] is better than [my competitor’s].
It’s easy to get discouraged if you don’t see the patterns and think you are doing something wrong, it’s better to keep vigilant.
Re: Learning Persian with Anki, ChatGPT and YouTube
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
Using the word pistan instead of sina when talking about "chicken breast" (the cut of meat)
Well you got another good laugh out of it from me LOL As an Iranian-American, I've made similar blunders in trying to communicate with my Mexican friends and colleagues. "Hey amigo, do you need a chauqeta?" I would ask to the eruption of laughter. If you look up "Chaqueta", translation services will happily tell you it means "Jacket". Don't trust it. Apparently to some Mexicans it also means jerking off.