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EU age verification app not planning desktop support

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Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#61
post #7
post #3

This is a great example of how this whole requirement hasn't been properly thought out. > Desktop support is not currently within the project's scope. What I would like to take from this is that, by their own definition, desktop apps are out of scope for Age Verification. So does that mean we will see a return of the 'desktop applications' instead of everything being a web service ? One can dream perhaps. Until then…

This read more like "we thought pc was a dead relic of the past" sadly

Well, looking around I see more people using smartphones for anything and even not having a PC…

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#62
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Further forcing everybody to have their phone on person at all times

I've been saying this for years: eventually not having your phone on you and powered up at all times will not be a crime, but it will be grounds for questioning and search. One day, there will be a knock on your door. "Good morning, this is the police. Is there something wrong with your phone? Is your phone broken? Can we provide you with a charge?" "No, I must have turned it off accidentally." "Can we assist you wit…

The Pedestrian: https://xpressenglish.com/wp-content/uploads/Stories/The-Ped...

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#63
This is insane. USA is already pushing sanctions against Europeans via US companies (e.g. Microsoft revoking ICC accounts), and now they are about to tie basic functioning in the society to two US megacorporations. At the very least this will solidify the duopoly.

At this point I don't find it impossible that critics or other "enemies" of US (or Israel) in Europe will get their phones bricked as sanctions, and as a result become second class citizens.

I don't even see the necessity for having hardware attestation. We've had for decades online ID systems that can you can run on any device with an internet connection.

But think of the children, right?

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#64
post #51

I finally took a look at the DSA, and it only mentions anything relevant to age verification in three places: - Recital 71, which vaguely suggests minors' privacy and security should be extra-protected, but says that services shouldn't process extra personal data to identify them. - Article 28, which says that platforms should provide a high level of "privacy, safety, and security of minors", again without processing…

The digital identity wallet isn't part of the DSA; it is part of an effort to bring identity to your phone, basically: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A...

If implemented according to plan, things like ID cards, drivers' licenses, diplomas, train tickets, and even payment control can be handled within such apps entirely digitally. Aside from age verification, with attribute based authentication you can prove digitally that you're permitted to drive a certain vehicle without revealing your social security number (equivalent).

A healthy dose of cynicism would make clear that the moment such optional infrastructure is rolled out, new legislation can be drafted to "save on expenses" by enforcing this digital model and "protect the kids/fight the terrorists" by forcing age verification on more businesses.

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#65
post #53
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> oes that mean we will see a return of the 'desktop applications'...? No. It's still required by law, which means that your desktop application will require some interaction with your smartphone.

My EU country allows tapping the ID card on a NFC reader on PC for verification. No smartphone needed for desktop use. Why wouldn't that be sufficient?

Most PCs don't have NFC readers.

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#66
Well, in the end there may only be one thing left we can collectively do, but which we surely won't collectively do, because too many of us are way too comfortable to accept any discomforts: We can avoid using services implementing shit, so that any business that singles out desktop users or disadvantages them, doesn't have much of a customer base. Voting with out feet.

I have very little hope, that the common user will make use of their own agency avoiding a dystopia, or even think about issues associated with their behavior. We can see this everywhere even today. The majority of people are clueless and just accept whatever bone is thrown their way. Need to buy a new phone every year now? OK. Pressured to accept digital surveillance by not even state agencies but private profit oriented companies, that want to sell your data or use it for nefarious purposes? OK. Giving all your communication data to big tech? OK. ... It is all just a big "auto-accept any digital rape" for most people, as they don't even want to think about the technical implications and implications for society. It's all so far above their technological understanding, that they just exit the bus, when it comes to discussing these things. That is the problem we face. How to make the normal person aware and interested in their own digital rights.

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#68
post #38

Tangentially, I would love to be able to see the age of everyone on the internet. IRL this gives us so much context when having an interaction.

Further tangent, I'm not big on digital ID and stuff overall but then I'll play an online game with cheaters and wonder if it's not the solution to things like this. Lifetime cross platform online game bans tied to your real life ID which you need to sign into this new all encompassing anticheat.

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#69
post #51

I finally took a look at the DSA, and it only mentions anything relevant to age verification in three places: - Recital 71, which vaguely suggests minors' privacy and security should be extra-protected, but says that services shouldn't process extra personal data to identify them. - Article 28, which says that platforms should provide a high level of "privacy, safety, and security of minors", again without processing…

The digital identity wallet isn't part of the DSA; it is part of an effort to bring identity to your phone, basically: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A... If implemented according to plan, things like ID cards, drivers' licenses, diplomas, train tickets, and even payment control can be handled within such apps entirely digitally. Aside from age verification, with attribute based authentica…

Yes, but this isn't part of the digital wallet project. As I understand it, the Commision was so impatient with age-verification that they commissioned this project separately, because they didn't want to wait for the full solution, hence it being called a "mini-ID wallet".

I'm certainly not against vigilance and making sure no new laws mandating the use of either this or the full digital wallet sneak through, but my point is that, despite the Commision's misleading public stance, age verification is (mostly) not mandatory today.

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#70
post #21
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This read more like "we thought pc was a dead relic of the past" sadly

I think it's more that smartphones have built in security measures that prevent hacking. It already works for bank apps, so why not use it for government stuff too? It sucks, yes, but that's probably how these people think.

> I think it's more that smartphones have built in security measures that prevent hacking.

Which is a joke when you know that most phones in the wild are using an obsolete OS version (most of the time due to lack of software support from the manufacturer, but sometimes because some people just refuse to update because updates are in fact downgrades — looking at you iOS).

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