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Are elites meritocratic and efficiency-seeking? Evidence from MBA students

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Re: Are elites meritocratic and efficiency-seeking? Evidence from MBA students

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the social sciences would have you believe that if you are white and/or male, that you are automatically in the former category even if you had to do all of those things mentioned by those in the later category.

Nah, social sciences don't say that. It's a common misconception - borne out of people who don't want to engage with what they're actually saying, or from engaging with people who don't know what social sciences actually say. All they really say is some people have an advantage. It doesn't mean they have it easy. We get advantages from all parts of life, and refusing to engage with recognizing them is a decision, but…

White privilege is a specific case of the phenomenon: “if you live in the culture built by your culture, you will benefit”, which is the whole point of culture in the first place.

A Japanese person has Japanese privilege in Japan, an Egyptian in Egypt, etc

If you’re “culturally American” in America (regardless of race), you will benefit.

If you’re White and culturally American in parts of America where White American culture dominates (like our institutions, which reflect a country that has been historically 90%+ White), you will benefit

If you’re White and in a place where non White culture dominates, you will be relatively disadvantaged. Most countries around the world, and even parts of the US (parts of Chicago where you have significant disadvantages from being White).

Re: Are elites meritocratic and efficiency-seeking? Evidence from MBA students

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CS theory is indeed closer to mathematics. But other areas--database systems, computer architecture, networking, user interface design etc., is in fact evaluated via experiments, which is what makes it "science". For example, if you propose some new technique to make databases faster (e.g. "store tuples column-wise instead of row-wise"), you'll implement it and run various workloads with and without the technique ena…

I believe that falls under what the OP called engineering, which is fair as in engineering one often has to run experiments to determine if what one thinks will work in the particular case actually works.

The distinction between engineering and science gets pretty blurred at the boundaries.

Re: Are elites meritocratic and efficiency-seeking? Evidence from MBA students

#64
This paper by Gilens and Page (2014) is referenced in the original paper and is interesting in its own right (if someone has a better link, please post):

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-poli...

"Each of four theoretical traditions in the study of American politics—which can be characterized as theories of Majoritarian Electoral Democracy, Economic-Elite Domination, and two types of interest-group pluralism, Majoritarian Pluralism and Biased Pluralism—offers different predictions about which sets of actors have how much influence over public policy: average citizens; economic elites; and organized interest groups, mass-based or business-oriented.

A great deal of empirical research speaks to the policy influence of one or another set of actors, but until recently it has not been possible to test these contrasting theoretical predictions against each other within a single statistical model. We report on an effort to do so, using a unique data set that includes measures of the key variables for 1,779 policy issues.

Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence. The results provide substantial support for theories of Economic-Elite Domination and for theories of Biased Pluralism, but not for theories of Majoritarian Electoral Democracy or Majoritarian Pluralism."

Re: Are elites meritocratic and efficiency-seeking? Evidence from MBA students

#65
post #12

This paper perfectly demonstrates two HR axioms I have observed in a 20 year tech journey from IC system engineer to retired unicorn CTO: 1. Total compensation varies obscenely within the organization. It correlates moderately with intelligence and in no way with effort. Some of the most useless articles you work with make the most money. 2. Leadership really, really, really does not want peers sharing compensation i…

A lot of big companies outside of tech already do have semi-transparent pay structures, plus or minus some wiggle room within pay bands. My wife works for a very large company that you've heard of. Everyone is assigned a pay band that corresponds to their title. Everyone can go on to the portal and see approximately how much someone else earns (within a narrow range) based on their level and geographical location. It…

> Everyone is assigned a pay band that corresponds to their title. Everyone can go on to the portal and see approximately how much someone else earns (within a narrow range) based on their level and geographical location.

> It hasn't brought compensation up. If anything, it has kept it down. My wife was objectively underpaid for a while and on the verge of leaving,

Can you expand on this because it's not making any logical sense.

Is the company underpaying everyone with that title, is her work not in line with her title (as compared to other employers), or is there something else (I'm hesitant to call BS, but there is a tendency within these types of conversations for people to invent scenarios to try and portray some sort of political narrative - for the left and right)

Re: Are elites meritocratic and efficiency-seeking? Evidence from MBA students

#66
post #12

This paper perfectly demonstrates two HR axioms I have observed in a 20 year tech journey from IC system engineer to retired unicorn CTO: 1. Total compensation varies obscenely within the organization. It correlates moderately with intelligence and in no way with effort. Some of the most useless articles you work with make the most money. 2. Leadership really, really, really does not want peers sharing compensation i…

There's a now deleted comment that touched upon some of the issues on making compensation information public; I have very similar views as above so I'll write my own: 1. There are skillsets/capabilities that the organization finds difficult to get on the market, as well as brings disproportionate profits to the organization. For example, a database company may need to hire two software engineers, one writing CRUD app…

> People usually like to believe that they're at least better than average and bring the same level of contributions to the team. This is most definitely not the case, and an engineering manager, VP, sales manager who simply appears to talk to people all day long may actually have important contributions such as overseeing key projects, talking to customers etc. which may be the thing that the company needs to lock that large sale or prevent customer attrition, or whatever the case may be.

As an engineer I have constantly heard throughout my career complaints that "We make the product, without us the sales wouldn't have a job, so we deserve better compensation"

To which I have always replied - speaking as an engineer, I struggle to sell a product, and I have seen multiple products that were technically superior to their competitors fail (Beta vs VHS!) - sales and management are vastly more important than engineering.

Re: Are elites meritocratic and efficiency-seeking? Evidence from MBA students

#67

This paper by Gilens and Page (2014) is referenced in the original paper and is interesting in its own right (if someone has a better link, please post): https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-poli... "Each of four theoretical traditions in the study of American politics—which can be characterized as theories of Majoritarian Electoral Democracy, Economic-Elite Domination, and two types of interest-gr…

Isnt that the expected outcome and why there is a second amendment? When the elite leeching gets too bad the constitutiin says you are supposed to kill them all and let god sort them out no?

Re: Are elites meritocratic and efficiency-seeking? Evidence from MBA students

#68
post #12

This paper perfectly demonstrates two HR axioms I have observed in a 20 year tech journey from IC system engineer to retired unicorn CTO: 1. Total compensation varies obscenely within the organization. It correlates moderately with intelligence and in no way with effort. Some of the most useless articles you work with make the most money. 2. Leadership really, really, really does not want peers sharing compensation i…

It's part of why I am always happy to share how much I earn with my coworkers, when the context is appropriate.

Confidentiality only helps those in power to suppress compensation.

Re: Are elites meritocratic and efficiency-seeking? Evidence from MBA students

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of big companies outside of tech already do have semi-transparent pay structures, plus or minus some wiggle room within pay bands. My wife works for a very large company that you've heard of. Everyone is assigned a pay band that corresponds to their title. Everyone can go on to the portal and see approximately how much someone else earns (within a narrow range) based on their level and geographical location. It…

> Everyone is assigned a pay band that corresponds to their title. Everyone can go on to the portal and see approximately how much someone else earns (within a narrow range) based on their level and geographical location. > It hasn't brought compensation up. If anything, it has kept it down. My wife was objectively underpaid for a while and on the verge of leaving, Can you expand on this because it's not making any l…

> I'm hesitant to call BS

I'm not - it is bullshit.

If she earned the top of the band, she was by definition not underpaid. She in fact earned more than every other employee that was not top of the band.

She might have wanted more money for what she was doing (and it has my sympathy, I too like more money).

But the solution was to either be promoted - which she may not have wanted, and I am sympathetic to that, I also don't enjoy promotions - or to move to a company that paid more for that role.

Re: Are elites meritocratic and efficiency-seeking? Evidence from MBA students

#70
post #53

Yawn. Call me back when it's been reproduced. Remember folks, we cannot cherry pick from the failed science of psychology even when it appears to be interesting.

By that metric all of science has failed, or at least the biomedical fields. Psychology looks like particle physics compared to fields like dentistry, and not a lot different from a lot of biomedical fields. Psychology is just the messenger — meta-science goes under the radar but it's probably its biggest contribution to science at large. I agree about replication in any case (not just psychological studies), but I h…

> By that metric all of science has failed, or at least the biomedical fields.

How much should we weaken our epistemic standard in order to avoid difficult conclusions?

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