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Pocket Casts, you altered the deal, so I will alter your app

blog.matthewbrunelle.com

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Re: Pocket Casts, you altered the deal, so I will alter your app

#61
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it seems to me that we desperately need to get back to a place where a business is held to their word. we have come to a place where corporations are calling limited “unlimited” and outright just lying to people. i have seen people unironically defend this as “well if they don’t lie, then how do you expect them to sell their product?” again, people have said this entirely unironically. i think it’s far more reasonabl…

Back in the day, Pepsi had an ads that claim you can win a Jet fighter if you do xxx. A guy did xxx and tried to get the Jet, but of course he couldn't and sue them. The court let Pepsi win. So, "a place where a business is held to their word" has never been existed.

But it should exist. This is blatantly false advertising. Of course a jet fighter is a ridiculous thing to promise, but it's still a promise they chose to make. Why make a promise they never intend to keep? That sort of thing should be struck down hard by the courts.

But a life time membership is not an unreasonable promise.

Re: Pocket Casts, you altered the deal, so I will alter your app

#62

To play devil's advocate here, clearly there are hosting costs and maintenance costs beyond a one time mobile app payment 14 years ago. Kinda sped read the article so apologies if I missed it, but why does the author here feel so entitled to something that clearly the company feels unreasonable to continuously maintain? They're clearly a struggling business, it feels like this author has a personal vendetta against t…

There's no reasonable devil's advocate. The answer is that one-time fee apps are not sustainable. There are ongoing costs with most businesses and one-time fees do not capture that. Therefore don't sell them. Sell everything on subscription or you will eventually fail to serve your customers and everyone will be unhappy. If you're a big business, it's risky to buy open-source applications, so don't do that unless the…

The one time fee doesn't pay for your ongoing costs, but it does pay for your upfront costs. The trick is to either get other users to pay for your ongoing costs, or to reduce ongoing costs and stop further development.

Re: Pocket Casts, you altered the deal, so I will alter your app

#63
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they have their own podcast index that you can search through. They also sync your listening progress to the cloud. But with PocketCasts Plus being $66 AUD/year, surely those subscriptions are enough to cover the costs. I used to subscribe to PocketCasts Plus, but I stopped when they raised the price. It's so expensive.

Having peek at the feature set I cannot imagine how this to cost more then handful of subscriber of revenue to run~ They do not host any media -- The volume of post searching fulltext is so small single PSQL instance can take over -- your listening progress is a single integer ...

Yeah, but they need money to pay for developers to enshittify the app.

Re: Pocket Casts, you altered the deal, so I will alter your app

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, does anyone actually have a copy of the contract from 14 years ago? Usually there are clauses hedging against this kind of thing. Example: I recently wrote the T&S for my Finnish dictionary app (still working on it), and I make it clear in advance that the license was a one time fee for perpetual use for that major version . [1] I can do this because the app is almost entirely offline, and because for the parts…

IIRC they advertised themselves as "pay once, use forever" in their marketing. So why shouldn't they uphold that?

An advertisement is not a contract, unfortunately. If we're going to talk legal, we need to talk in legalese.

Re: Pocket Casts, you altered the deal, so I will alter your app

#65

Since we are talking about podcasts, if you are looking for a podcast app for Android, use Antenna Pod [0]. I use it every day. It's smooth, seamless, and FOSS. Note that I am just a user, and not otherwise linked with them. [0]: https://antennapod.org

This is a perfect replacement for me, thanks for recommending it.

Re: Pocket Casts, you altered the deal, so I will alter your app

#66

Since we are talking about podcasts, if you are looking for a podcast app for Android, use Antenna Pod [0]. I use it every day. It's smooth, seamless, and FOSS. Note that I am just a user, and not otherwise linked with them. [0]: https://antennapod.org

I recently switched from Pocket Casts to AntennaPod. AntennaPod is also available in F-Droid, which Pocket Casts isn't. It feels less likely that AntennaPod will be enshittified, which is why I made the switch.

Re: Pocket Casts, you altered the deal, so I will alter your app

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's reasonable to feel that reneging on the deal is wrong, while also recognising that $5 for 14 years (and counting) of value is far too low a price. There's no good answer here. The company is stuck in a bad place where the most loyal users, probably those getting the most value out of it in the long run, aren't paying for it. Subscriptions for newer users are one way, or trying to upsell existing users, but this…

The App Store does not have any kind of native support for selling app upgrades which leads to all kinds of problems: * Links on the web to your app die since the links go to the old version, people who see your app recommended click the link and think the app is gone. * You can't keep supporting users of older versions with simple bug fix releases without leaving the app live on the store, which confuses users into…

You can make an app no longer available for sale without removing the ability to download it for existing customers. That's all that is really needed. You can also create bundles that discount for new purchasers if they own the old one. I've seen this done by a few people.

It's not something that is well supported, but it's not infeasible.

> Links on the web to your app die since the links go to the old version, people who see your app recommended click the link and think the app is gone.

Links to the store listing page, yes, but also I wouldn't trust those links to work permanently anyway, I'd create a redirect page in my control.

Deep link connections into apps are evaluated at install time, so if a user installs a new version and the site allows this, that should transition correctly.

> You can't keep supporting users of older versions with simple bug fix releases without leaving the app live on the store, which confuses users into buying the old version of the app.

I would suggest stopping updates. If you're disciplined about software releases you can burn down the list of bugs to the point that it's negligible towards the end of the major version, and then close it as no longer updated. Bugs on new OSes are out of scope, a good reason for users to update.

> You can't sell upgrades at a discount price (which is common in any other software market)

I'm pretty sure I've seen this done via an admittedly awkward use of bundles. Alternatively a soft launch to existing users with temporary discount seems very common.

> Just user confusion in general.

This feels solvable, and it's not like the current situation doesn't result in confusion. We have plenty of confusion, so it's just about figuring out the better option. This will vary by userbase.

Re: Pocket Casts, you altered the deal, so I will alter your app

#68
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no reasonable devil's advocate. The answer is that one-time fee apps are not sustainable. There are ongoing costs with most businesses and one-time fees do not capture that. Therefore don't sell them. Sell everything on subscription or you will eventually fail to serve your customers and everyone will be unhappy. If you're a big business, it's risky to buy open-source applications, so don't do that unless the…

The one time fee doesn't pay for your ongoing costs, but it does pay for your upfront costs. The trick is to either get other users to pay for your ongoing costs, or to reduce ongoing costs and stop further development.

I suppose you're right, but you have to be very quick in the latter case to fully extract your portion of the surplus or you're just yielding it to a copycat that does the subscription model.

Re: Pocket Casts, you altered the deal, so I will alter your app

#69

To play devil's advocate here, clearly there are hosting costs and maintenance costs beyond a one time mobile app payment 14 years ago. Kinda sped read the article so apologies if I missed it, but why does the author here feel so entitled to something that clearly the company feels unreasonable to continuously maintain? They're clearly a struggling business, it feels like this author has a personal vendetta against t…

> why does the author here feel so entitled

Because they paid for it.

Re: Pocket Casts, you altered the deal, so I will alter your app

#70

> You were a pay-once app. Released in 2011, pay once each for Android, iOS, and Web and keep for life. You know. I approve the pushback on enshitification. But there’s something weird about righteous fury over an app which literally costs money to run didn’t provide free updates for literally decades on what probably cost like $5. I dunno. It just kinda rubs me the wrong way.

It would actually be fine to me if they left the old app to rot and spun up a new one as a subscription model. Eventually the old one would break and we'd shrug our shoulders and move on.

However instead they took the existing app and vandalised it, abusing the user's privacy and invading their eyeballs.

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