Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A New Internet Business Model?

blog.cloudflare.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 218 posts

Re: A New Internet Business Model?

#61

Post by nickysielicki »

Killing the open internet is generally a good thing. Large companies and hostile nation states benefit from the open internet massively, while providing none of it back. The Chinese intranet is not accessible to EU/NA scrapers, but they can read all of our scientific journals. Facebook posts aren’t freely available for you to scrape, but llama is trained on obscure usenet posts and the entire comment history of reddit and hackernews. North Korea has their own linux distribution. Etc.

If the open internet is already dead (and it is already dead), it’s better to accept that reality and silo off the good parts behind paywalls so that people can get paid, rather than to let bad people benefit massively from it while they build their walled gardens. This has been a long time coming.

Re: A New Internet Business Model?

#62

Post by gdulli »

falcor84 wrote: post #12
xeonmc wrote: post #5

tldr, surely this article needs an ai summary at the top.

> Hardin threw himself back in the chair. “You know, that's the most interesting part of the whole business. I admit that I thought his Lordship a most consummate donkey when I first met him – but it turned out that he is an accomplished diplomat and a most clever man. I took the liberty of recording all his statements.” ... “When Houk, after two days of steady work, succeeded in eliminating meaningless statements, v…

SHCP (The Salvor Hardin Compression Protocol)

Re: A New Internet Business Model?

#63

Post by grahameb »

bix6 wrote: post #26
grahameb wrote: post #3

I hope that the next big shift will be to undo the asymmetry that crept into the internet quickly after it first became popular. Let us host stuff at home. Let us run odd and strange and great systems wherever we are. Undo the cloud, undo the capture of the net – I'm old enough to remember when we just had a bunch of boxen under a desk somewhere, and it was pretty great.

> Let us host stuff at home. We can dream. ISP says NO!

My ISP gives me v6 and lets me turn off their firewall. That's a start

Re: A New Internet Business Model?

#64

Post by velcrovan »

andy99 wrote: post #45
velcrovan wrote: post #25

Everyone seems to be dismissing this without reading it. As a content publisher, I am very interested in any proposal that results in me getting residual payments from AI scrapers. That would indeed be a new internet business model. This is also being attempted by RSL with their “Crawler Authentication Protocol” ( https://rslstandard.org/guide/web-crawlers ) for demanding proof of licensing from scrapers and RSL Coll…

> As a content publisher, I am very interested in any proposal that results in me getting residual payments from AI scrapers. So you use a public resource and presumably like the upside that comes with sharing on it, but you want to limit uses now that someone has found one that you don't like, so you're fine with degrading that public resource? You could always share things privately or behind a paywall if you don't…

> So you use a public resource and presumably like the upside that comes with sharing on it, but you want to limit uses now that someone has found one that you don't like, so you're fine with degrading that public resource?

Can you say more? what is the "public resource" I'm using as a content publisher? In that role I see myself more as the provider of a public resource (my content), not a user.

Re: A New Internet Business Model?

#65

Post by keehun »

grahameb wrote: post #3

I hope that the next big shift will be to undo the asymmetry that crept into the internet quickly after it first became popular. Let us host stuff at home. Let us run odd and strange and great systems wherever we are. Undo the cloud, undo the capture of the net – I'm old enough to remember when we just had a bunch of boxen under a desk somewhere, and it was pretty great.

This is one of the core usecases of cloudflared (https://github.com/cloudflare/cloudflared)! Without having a static IP address or dynamic DNS, you can establish a connection between your machine in a private network with Cloudflare. And once a resource is on the Cloudflare network, you can pretty much do anything with it, including routing your visitors to that server and using the full Cloudflare stack including its CDN, firewalls, and Anti-Bot protections.

Re: A New Internet Business Model?

#66

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

"Let's give money to the content creators" is exactly what big incumbents want. They want to farm you, the viewer, for big profits, and give the content creators a few pennies in return. Meanwhile they hoover up the lion's share of the profit. We've seen this over and over again. It's rent-seeking.

"Content creators" are part of the problem. Generating endless "content", which isn't very useful or valuable, and creates too much "content supply", which devalues it. This then creates a giant "soup" of content that viewers drown in, trying to find some content that isn't as identically useless as all the rest. But the big incumbents love it, because they use this content soup to collect money from - you guessed it - ad companies. (Those same companies they don't want to make ad-blockers against...)

So now that search is dead, they need to find a new way to drink from the ad-dollar faucet. At first it'll be "pay content creators from AI subscription money", but then AI will be offered "free with ads", and then later "paid with ads". And nobody's going to stop it, because everyone is "happy": the viewer gets their free crap (with ads), the content creators get a few pennies, the big companies rake in billions, and ad companies continue their "industrial welfare" by pouring their excess profits into this whole system as ad-dollars. The great commoditization of eyeballs continues.

Re: A New Internet Business Model?

#67

Post by [deleted] »

neuracnu wrote: post #30

In short: we'll have the machines tell the creators what to create. > You could imagine an AI company suggesting back to creators that they need more created about topics they may not have enough content about. Say, for example, the carrying capacity of unladened swallows because they know their subscribers of a certain age and proclivity are always looking for answers about that topic. The very pruning algorithms th…

[deleted]

Re: A New Internet Business Model?

#68

Post by Workaccount2 »

btbuildem wrote: post #15

Colour me cynical mauve, but you would have to pry the current business model out of advertisers' cold dead hands. What is most likely to happen is the so called Answer Engines will embed advertising into their results -- except in a more insidious, subtle, hard to detect and filter out manner. The Open Letter reads naive at best, asking us to imagine an Internet where creators are rewarded for "filling the holes in…

People like the current model too, because you can access most(ish) content without ads or subscription if you ad-block.

This discussion is going to be rife with the pot calling the kettle black as people who have blocked every ad for the last 15 years call out AI for not compensating creators...

Re: A New Internet Business Model?

#69

Post by pyrale »

andy99 wrote: post #45
velcrovan wrote: post #25

Everyone seems to be dismissing this without reading it. As a content publisher, I am very interested in any proposal that results in me getting residual payments from AI scrapers. That would indeed be a new internet business model. This is also being attempted by RSL with their “Crawler Authentication Protocol” ( https://rslstandard.org/guide/web-crawlers ) for demanding proof of licensing from scrapers and RSL Coll…

> As a content publisher, I am very interested in any proposal that results in me getting residual payments from AI scrapers. So you use a public resource and presumably like the upside that comes with sharing on it, but you want to limit uses now that someone has found one that you don't like, so you're fine with degrading that public resource? You could always share things privately or behind a paywall if you don't…

Your point is that pepole leaving some produce on the side of the road along with a money box should accept that some people loot all the produce in a 100km radius without paying, and resell it?

Re: A New Internet Business Model?

#70

Post by [deleted] »

paxys wrote: post #34
nojs wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Charge site owners to protect the site from aggressive crawlers, charge crawlers/agents to bypass the protection. Like a good old fashioned protection racket

That's not what protection racket means. Cloudflare isn't the one building LLMs and scraping websites.

[deleted]
Post reply on HN