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Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

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Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#61

Post by r14c »

refactor_master wrote: post #52
bigyabai wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If humanity develops the need for "burner planets" then maybe we don't deserve to expand past our solar system...

It's funny that you're using the word "deserve". Based on whose moral framework? I'm not sure current moral frameworks on Earth would be against colonizing the Universe if it was possible.

Its not even about deserving it. How are going to maintain a terraforming project or build habitable orbital platforms if we can't manage keeping our natural habitat habitable?

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#62

Post by rdtsc »

> For a time, the mantle would get hotter, since the shell around it would trap heat generated by radioactively decaying compounds inside it. As heat accumulates in the interior, the Earth in Kane’s simulations would experience an uptick in volcanism lasting for about 15 million years.

That totally surprised to me. I had no idea radioactive decay played such a role for earth. It turns out I must have fallen sleep in one of the classes when that was explained.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_internal_heat_budget

> The radioactive decay of elements in the Earth's mantle and crust results in production of daughter isotopes and release of geoneutrinos and heat energy, or radiogenic heat. About 50% of the Earth's internal heat originates from radioactive decay

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#64

Post by woopsn »

kulahan wrote: post #57
eru wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of tectonics would only be a problem if you want your terraforming to be 'one and done'. If you admit that terraforming, even after it's 'done', will require an ongoing maintenance effort, it's simple (but not easy). Eg you can use satellites to spin up an artificial magnetic field to shield against solar wind. However, I suspect terraforming planets is a waste. Far more bang for your buck to build habitats…

It's worth mentioning that one of the more sane ways to terraform a planet is to redirect specific comets to crash into the planet. It would be "free" in the sense that redirecting an orbit is already actively being studied by NASA for planetary defense reasons. To actually terraform a planet in this method would be unreasonably affordable compared to anything else I've ever heard. edit: Plus, it's nice to split our…

I didn't think reasonable really has a definition here. The rendezvous with these comets will take centuries or millennia even if we can get out there and kick them the right way (which is much harder than arranging a miss). Only then do we start terraforming, which takes thousands/millions of years in addition. Who/whatever we're preparing the planet for probably wouldn't be "people" anymore. :)

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#65

Post by BurningFrog »

noir_lord wrote: post #32
pizzathyme wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. But my understanding is the main idea is Mars is supposed to be a "backup" for humanity in the event of a very-low-probability catastrophic event on earth (total nuclear war, solar flare, meteorite collision). In our lifetimes, unlikely. Over the next 1 million years? Maybe.

I’m of the opinion we’ll just do massive structures in space, lifting out of a gravity well just doesn’t make sense, if you can manufacture in space and we know there is a tonne of resources off plant in the solar system I don’t see why terraforming a plant is the smart play.

That makes sense, but it can easily take a century to get that production ready.

Meanwhile, SpaceX is preparing to start prepping Mars colonization in a few years.

I know, Elon's timelines always break. But his insane goals are also always reached after considerable delays.

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#66

Post by r14c »

WalterBright wrote: post #53
tasty_freeze wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thinking about wild scenarios is fun and sometimes even prudent. But acting on it at this point is tragic premature optimization. Musk isn't a stupid person so I have to think in his heart he knows his story is more about PR and being seen as a visionary as something that will actually be done in the next thousand or ten thousand years. Even if there is some climate catastrophe that causes 99% of the population to di…

The crazy ones are the ones that get sh*t done. Musk was initially written off initially as crazy for every one of his successful business ventures. And it's his money to spend as he sees fit.

Musk is a visionary in the sense that he bought an EV company and took government contracts to mass produce NASA engine designs and launch military and civilian coms networks. Nobody has deeper pockets than Uncle Sam.

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#68

Post by zahlman »

eru wrote: post #54
codq wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without tectonics, is terraforming Mars even possible as a long term solution? This "Mars colonization" strategy seems like a pipe dream, no?

The lack of tectonics would only be a problem if you want your terraforming to be 'one and done'. If you admit that terraforming, even after it's 'done', will require an ongoing maintenance effort, it's simple (but not easy). Eg you can use satellites to spin up an artificial magnetic field to shield against solar wind. However, I suspect terraforming planets is a waste. Far more bang for your buck to build habitats…

> So if you dig a bit under the surface it all evens out. Pick the right latitude, and you can get basically any average temperature you feel like

It seems hard to believe that this would actually work, even though I understand why it should. Although you have to do the digging starting in extreme temperature conditions without an atmosphere.

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#69

Post by tomrod »

bigyabai wrote: post #33
pizzathyme wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. But my understanding is the main idea is Mars is supposed to be a "backup" for humanity in the event of a very-low-probability catastrophic event on earth (total nuclear war, solar flare, meteorite collision). In our lifetimes, unlikely. Over the next 1 million years? Maybe.

If humanity develops the need for "burner planets" then maybe we don't deserve to expand past our solar system...

We are the only known intelligent life the universe has ever produced. Anti-natal ecoism is a bit of a fallacy.

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#70

Post by SilverElfin »

Mistletoe wrote: post #5
neuroelectron wrote: post #3

Because of the distance from the sun

That’s part of it but the dense CO2 atmosphere is the major issue. Don’t worry, we are trying to get there as fast as we can to Hell as well.

What’s the worst case CO2 on earth? Is it as bad as Venus?
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