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They Thought They Were Free (1955)

press.uchicago.edu

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Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#61

Post by HK-NC »

metalman wrote: post #27
csomar wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

And only from reading Chinese history and how the Chinese inteligencia see's it can you get the full wieght that what to them is an inevitable and unstopable cycle. They go so far as to describe the stages and symptoms of each stage, along with specific societal conditions that we continue to replicate with a mechanical precision they gave the name "The turning of the dynastic wheel" The chinese with there long histo…

I have a chinese friend who said something similar to this, she believes much of the culture in the modern west is influenced by some shady chinese government attempt at controlling the speed at which said wheel turns, through Tiktok and stuff. While Id normally dismiss her as a nut, we do have rioting in the street arguing over a miniscule group of people wearing clothes dsigned for the opposite sex.

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#62

Post by madaxe_again »

_9ptr wrote: post #54
immibis wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly because the Allies took over and invested a bunch of money into them developing in ways that didn't involve fascism.

That's not even remotely what happened

History disagrees with your bold statement.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#63

Post by fn-mote »

hagbard_c wrote: post #42
heresie-dabord wrote: post #25

> They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 by Milton Mayer, published by the University of Chicago Press. ©1955, 1966, 2017 by the University of Chicago. Such books will no longer be published if universities are not free. And if freedom begins to disappear, even those who believe themselves safely conformist are not safe... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_They_Came

[flagged]

> get ideology out of academia

This reads like someone who needs to take the time to understand the breadth of “ideology”. What will be left when what you consider ideology is gone?

As you note, even science has its ideology.

What about science itself? That too can be (is) considered ideology, although I assume you reject that position… that doesn’t make you correct (or wrong).

There is a lot of theoretical writing about this; it would be worth your time to understand.

In some ways we are already living in a world in which there are no restrictions on speech, certainly no privilege of truthful, factually based speech.

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#64

Post by thrance »

Amezarak wrote: post #46
tobias3 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a German outside observer I can tell you there is only one side going down the facist path. The "other side" isn't great either. Would be great to have a sane alternative, I guess.

Perhaps you are not aware that the “other side” declared Constitutional amendments by fiat, assassinated American citizens with drone strikes, lied to the courts to imprison influential Twitter users, used intelligence agencies to spy on Congress, dramatically expanded the surveillance state, declared by EO they simply wouldn’t enforce some laws on favored demographics, ordered social media companies to censor and ba…

Got sources for any of that?

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#65

Post by mallowdram »

adriand wrote: post #14

If you’re interested in this topic, I really recommend reading How Fascism Works, by Jason Stanley. [1] It’s a remarkable book - slim, easy to read, and enlightening. What was most astonishing to me was that there is a playbook: ever wonder why these regimes always target LGTBQ people, for example? It’s explained here, along with everything else you need to know about the mechanics of prosaic, predictable type of gov…

[dead]

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#66

Post by FrustratedMonky »

immibis wrote: post #47
hagbard_c wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

First they came for those who thought the sky was pulsating green, but I did not speak out for I did not dare to question the blue sky narrative. Then they came for those who thought the earth was flat, but I did not speak out for I did not dare to question the round earth narrative. Then they came for those who thought the internet was carried by little elves, but I did not speak out for I did not dare to question t…

Also in 1933, people saying 'not all narratives are equal' to diminish any outcry against what was happening.

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#67

Post by DarkNova6 »

HK-NC wrote: post #39
jackstraw42 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excerpts from this have popped up in Reddit comments quite a bit the last few years. At first it did feel out of place, but now I'm going going back and listening to Dan Carlin talk about the headspace of society before something like Nazi Germany happens. With all the Executive Orders and lawlessness from the Executive Branch and throughout our federal government with this new regime, it's pretty clear they're attem…

Wasnt Germany better off in the decades following WW2 than the British that defeated them?

Certainly not the ones occupied by the Soviet Union.

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#68

Post by madaxe_again »

hagbard_c wrote: post #42
heresie-dabord wrote: post #25

> They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 by Milton Mayer, published by the University of Chicago Press. ©1955, 1966, 2017 by the University of Chicago. Such books will no longer be published if universities are not free. And if freedom begins to disappear, even those who believe themselves safely conformist are not safe... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_They_Came

[flagged]

Look, I don’t say this to be cruel, I say this to be kind. Someone once said similar to me and it helped me enormously:

The reason your life sucks is you. Not anybody else. You. You are in complete control of your destiny.

That is all.

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#69

Post by estearum »

hagbard_c wrote: post #42
heresie-dabord wrote: post #25

> They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 by Milton Mayer, published by the University of Chicago Press. ©1955, 1966, 2017 by the University of Chicago. Such books will no longer be published if universities are not free. And if freedom begins to disappear, even those who believe themselves safely conformist are not safe... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_They_Came

[flagged]

"They came for..." in this comment refers to "the marketplace of ideas built a brief consensus against..."

The "they came for..." in the famous poem, and in reference to today's Trump administration, refers to "the government utilized state power to advance or suppress certain ideas."

These are not the same at all.

A few specific bullets:

* Universities (especially private ones) are allowed to have ideological biases. If you disagree with them, go to a different university, criticize them, or create your own university.

* At least in the US, the health institutions merely flagged low-quality information to social media companies. It was up to the social media companies as to whether they wanted to respond -- in many cases they did not. This went to SCOTUS who decided there was no evidence that social media companies were coerced by the health institutions, partially because the social media companies created and began enforcing their policies prior to any of the alleged coercion

Note: None of this applies to the UK which really does have a free speech issue, but also doesn't really have anything close to as strong a legal guarantee of free speech and maybe should.

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#70

Post by nkrisc »

hagbard_c wrote: post #42
heresie-dabord wrote: post #25

> They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 by Milton Mayer, published by the University of Chicago Press. ©1955, 1966, 2017 by the University of Chicago. Such books will no longer be published if universities are not free. And if freedom begins to disappear, even those who believe themselves safely conformist are not safe... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_They_Came

[flagged]

Is "gender ideology" what we're now calling the idea that a tiny minority of people want to live their lives a little differently that the rest of us without harming anyone and mostly be left alone?
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