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Restriction on Entry of Certain Nonimmigrant Workers

whitehouse.gov

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Re: Restriction on Entry of Certain Nonimmigrant Workers

#61

Post by cmxch »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #32
DaveExeter wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because nepotism leads to untalented people getting jobs? I think the $100K fee is a good idea. If these H-1Bs are exceptional talent, paying $100k to employ one is truly a bargain.

What if China only charges $1k or even free for the same people? I mean, they are doing lots of AI work now also, and you can already see a few foreign programmers in Beijing, Shanghai, and Shenzhen. What is stopping Apple, Microsoft, Meta, or Amazon from doing even more work in India or other countries because they can't get the people they need in the US, or its just cheaper to setup more research jobs in Stockholm…

Set a floor that is regionally adjusted such that the foreign ops/noncitizen cost is consistently higher no matter where. And that it also accounts for and penalizes malicious compliance/intent.

Regarding the overall problem: For the jobs that people care about keeping away from the alphabet soup provisions, the only problem is finding pliant and desperate people that take any port in a storm - not competence.

On business resistance: As for firms like Alphabet/Microsoft/Meta, they are not immune to noneconomic forces that might favor US presence and penalize non US expansion, broadly construed.

Re: Restriction on Entry of Certain Nonimmigrant Workers

#62

Post by psidium »

cvhc wrote: post #34
psidium wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but a visa stamp renewal is a visa “application” while the document that allows the application is the “petition”, which is the word used on this text and the step requiring the payment.

"Section 1. Restriction on Entry. (a) ... the entry into the United States..., is restricted, except for those aliens whose petitions are accompanied or supplemented by a payment of $100,000". OK, if I consider this interpretation, which of the following do you think will apply to already-approved H-1B petitioners: 1. Existing H-1B holder can amend their already-approved petition by "supplementing a payment" to becom…

I’m not not a lawyer at all and I have no real idea. My guess is that existing visas are already printed and henceforth there is no petition anymore, you have a status or visa already. Since the old petition didn’t require the payment, you don’t need to show proof of payment now. But lol if I actually know how this works, can be anyone’s guess.

My guess is that if this goes forward new h1b visas petitioned while the worker is outside the US will have a line saying “must show proof of payment” or something like that, while petitions while in the US won’t have that line on their visa stamp

Re: Restriction on Entry of Certain Nonimmigrant Workers

#63

Post by DaveExeter »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #32
DaveExeter wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because nepotism leads to untalented people getting jobs? I think the $100K fee is a good idea. If these H-1Bs are exceptional talent, paying $100k to employ one is truly a bargain.

What if China only charges $1k or even free for the same people? I mean, they are doing lots of AI work now also, and you can already see a few foreign programmers in Beijing, Shanghai, and Shenzhen. What is stopping Apple, Microsoft, Meta, or Amazon from doing even more work in India or other countries because they can't get the people they need in the US, or its just cheaper to setup more research jobs in Stockholm…

I think you meant "world market".

Companies are going to be offshoring as much as they can anyway. Bits fly across borders untaxed.

If there is some foreign talent that, for example, Meta thinks will benefit their bottom line by $1M/year, an extra $100K on top of a $250K benefits package is small change!

It's a human-tariff, but it is paid by wealthy corporations.

Re: Restriction on Entry of Certain Nonimmigrant Workers

#64

Post by cmxch »

alephnerd wrote: post #18
nonethewiser wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it break it worse?

This does nothing to stop the rise of GCCs. In tech industry, we already began slowing down H1B hiring after COVID, and remote work only exacerbated that trend (I can't justify spending $150k plus an additional 25-35% in withholdings, medical, and benefits when I can hire 2-3 people with a similar outlay in Praha or Bangalore or Tel Aviv). At least with H1B hiring, there was some incentive for industries like cyberse…

Then make the GCC itself unprofitable to operate as an extractive force and the costs unable to be mitigated as an extractive entity.

Your GCCs will be paying for the direct training of the US side people you overlooked and essentially a generous and well backed “pension” for the few that can’t be made current.

Unless you’re helping to fix the pipeline problem you allege exists, you’re expanding the problem space.

Re: Restriction on Entry of Certain Nonimmigrant Workers

#65

Post by chickenzzzzu »

ivewonyoung wrote: post #60
chickenzzzzu wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Retail investors can't purchase shares of SpaceX. Nearly anyone on Earth can purchase shares of Google and Tesla, and we all benefit from the knock on effects of their technology. And yet only Americans have to compete for housing and jobs in this context. I ask you once again, why would I lose anything if Tesla was in the UAE?

> ask you once again, why would I lose anything if Tesla was in the UAE? Tesla employs 120,000 people in the US, not to mention all the federal, state, local, SS and Medicare taxes paid. Tesla employees, especially early ones, also had their stock options grow huge, building US wealth and increasing taxes owed and paid.

That is a reasonable counter argument, however I would argue that that is no longer a benefit for the American public.

Similar to how our country effectively relocated our entire manufacturing sector to the entire world (to externalize the environmental impact), only to enforce it with gunboat diplomacy to ensure that only the profits make their way home, I don't see any benefit in having the jobs located on US soil.

Politicians will say that there is a good reason to have the jobs here, but there isn't. It is much better for everyone if we just tax the owners of the company when they exercise their shares (something probably has to be done about the loaning loophole).

America should be a nation of suburban houses, spread quite far apart from each other, of people mostly working from home. Anything else is a legitimate nuissance.

Re: Restriction on Entry of Certain Nonimmigrant Workers

#66

Post by alephnerd »

terminalshort wrote: post #53
alephnerd wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Find me a dozen new grads with exploit development experience or OS internals knowhow beyond a summary course. I can do that in Tel Aviv over a week.

Maybe don't hire new grads if you need experience for the position.

The point is to highlight the skill gap. There's a reason Wiz was founded Tel Aviv and not Silicon Valley.

In a lot of technical subfields, the talent pipeline in the US is dead because of a mix of government, education, and (yes) personal apathy,

Re: Restriction on Entry of Certain Nonimmigrant Workers

#67

Post by Tadpole9181 »

alephnerd wrote: post #35
nonethewiser wrote: post #6

H1-B program is exploited. They are not supposed to be hired unless there aren't Americans who can fill the role. There should be a large fee associated with it.

Find me a dozen new grads with exploit development experience or OS internals knowhow beyond a summary course. I can do that in Tel Aviv over a week.

Then you go headquarter your business and live in Tel Aviv. This situation is untenable.

Re: Restriction on Entry of Certain Nonimmigrant Workers

#68

Post by alephnerd »

Tadpole9181 wrote: post #67
alephnerd wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Find me a dozen new grads with exploit development experience or OS internals knowhow beyond a summary course. I can do that in Tel Aviv over a week.

Then you go headquarter your business and live in Tel Aviv. This situation is untenable.

That's what's steadily happening, and why the pipeline crisis in cybersecurity and other segments of the tech industry is arising in the US.

The US system only worked because the US had the right mix of openness to domestic and foreign capital and talent.

A lot of people on HN and in our industry in the US need to recognize that they are competing in a global market, and need to upskill accordingly.

Just having a CS degree and knowing Leetcode isn't enough, and I'm not going to pay $150k base for an MLE who only knows how to use PyTorch wrappers and basic math, but little-to-no CUDA or Infiniband background, or for a new grad SWE to work on a CNAPP if they don't understand how eBPF and LSMs work.

And no, it is not our responsibility as businesses to incubate that talent if American admins are not helping us (though I shouted myself hoarse about this when I used to be in that space). Everything has become hyper-politicized in the US now, and that is not the kind of environment any business can operate in.

Re: Restriction on Entry of Certain Nonimmigrant Workers

#69

Post by Freedom2 »

ivewonyoung wrote: post #56
Jalad wrote: post #17

Bsky thread which reported a bunch of details I didn't see in other outlets https://bsky.app/profile/reichlinmelnick.bsky.social/post/3l...

> H-1B visa holders are REQUIRED to leave the country to renew their visas every few years This part is not exactly true. You can renew H1B indefinitely within the USA(every 3 years, need a pending Green card application from the 2nd extension onwards i.e after 6 years). However, if you leave the US for any reason you won't be able to re-enter the USA without a renewed visa stamp from a US embassy. The two exceptions…

No, it's correct. The original comment said "to renew their visas". The visa expires on its expiration date, however the H1B status itself is extended. Hope this helps.

Re: Restriction on Entry of Certain Nonimmigrant Workers

#70

Post by alephnerd »

nis0s wrote: post #43
alephnerd wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2025, the decision isn't hiring someone on an H1B versus a citizen - the cost is mostly a wash. The decision is hiring in the US (visa or citizen) versus hiring abroad. Given that a large number of EMs, PMs, Directors, and even VPs are on some sort of immigration or work visa, this makes it easier to incentivize you as an employer to move some of them back to India or Czechia to open a GCC. This is what has been h…

> The decision is hiring in the US (visa or citizen) versus hiring abroad. True, but there’s a balance that employers have to maintain to get some in-state advantages from local or state governments for job creation. That said, it makes more sense for America to get trainers or professors for niche subfields than actual workers so you can create homegrown talent, not sure why that isn’t done more.

> but there’s a balance that employers have to maintain to get some in-state advantages from local or state governments for job creation

True! The issue is local, state, and federal governments gives limited benefits compared to CEE countries, Israel, India, and others who roll the red carpet with multi-year tax holidays, subsidizes, and targeted hiring pipelines.

> makes more sense for America to get trainers or professors for niche subfields than actual workers so you can create homegrown talent

How? They overwhelmingly came on H1Bs as well, not O-1s.

This is why this is such a stupid approach, and is absolutely showing the hallmarks of a Stephen Miller policy. Interestingly, this seems to have overshadowed the Trump Gold Card and Platinum Card announcements (which part of me thinks was part of the reason this announcement happened).

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