Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

nrk.no

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 144 posts

Re: Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

#61

Post by diggan »

Y-bar wrote: post #56
diggan wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ideally, any accusations like this should first go through a careful examination by a jury of one’s peers rather than just being posted willy nilly. Does Norway even have juries? At least in Sweden we don't have any juries in court (and the two countries tend to be more similar than not), so while the overall comment sounds fitting (and I agree), some details seem to miss the detail of what country this is about :)

Both Norway and Sweden have Lay Judges in the lower courts (which is little more than voluntary juries): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lay_judge

Nämndemän (Lay Judges) are nothing like juries, at least how I understand juries. In lower courts (tingsrätt), those people are appointed by the city council, and the people chosen are often politically involved (yet the appointment is "unpolitical"), they're not just "randoms" who got called to be in the jury, like how I understand the juries in the US to work.

Re: Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

#62

Post by petsfed »

Insanity wrote: post #40
dismalaf wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently a man was shot and killed in a home invasion defending his family (also in Ontario). The police first claimed it was a targeted killing (implying the man was a gang member), then when that turned out false, the police said you should comply with home invaders instead of resisting... https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-top-cop-wa...

So.. I live in Ontario. And I actually agree with that statement. Why would you resist and risk your life instead of just complying? Material things aren't worth actually getting hurt over. The implication that "the police say this because they can't stop the crime" is IMO not the right take-away. The correct take-away is that a certain level of crime is unavoidable in practice, and you should prioritize your life ov…

The problem with this line of thinking is that home invasion is a different kind of crime from breaking and entering.

With breaking and entering, the goal is to get what they can with a minimum of fuss. Locked doors, barking dogs, automatic lights, security systems, etc are all great deterrents, because the goal is to get as much as possible while avoiding capture. The table stakes are that the burglar can get in and out without getting caught.

With home invasion, the whole threat profile is different. The operating premise is that the invader will use violence or the threat of it to brutalize the home occupants into facilitating the theft, the escape, and avoidance of prosecution.

Think of how wild animals engage in violence: they will not enter into a violent situation unless trapped (either physically, or by circumstance - e.g. fight or starve), or they think they can win the fight without sustaining any substantial injury. In the case of a home invasion, you are trapped, but the other guy has chosen the fight.

All of that to say, compliance should be done in the light of keeping yourself and those around you together and unharmed, and not willy-nilly. Obviously, don't pick a fight over a TV. But understand that if they continue their breaking-and-entering after they know you're there, compliance may be insufficient to protect your life.

Re: Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

#63

Post by Y-bar »

diggan wrote: post #61
Y-bar wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both Norway and Sweden have Lay Judges in the lower courts (which is little more than voluntary juries): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lay_judge

Nämndemän (Lay Judges) are nothing like juries, at least how I understand juries. In lower courts (tingsrätt), those people are appointed by the city council, and the people chosen are often politically involved (yet the appointment is "unpolitical"), they're not just "randoms" who got called to be in the jury, like how I understand the juries in the US to work.

The randomness of selection is the only difference of any significance. Lay judges and juries have the same amount of judicial power and knowledge.

Edit: it has been pointed out to me that lay judges have even more powers such as interpretation of law than juries, which seems dangerous.

Re: Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

#64

Post by [deleted] »

Insanity wrote: post #40
dismalaf wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently a man was shot and killed in a home invasion defending his family (also in Ontario). The police first claimed it was a targeted killing (implying the man was a gang member), then when that turned out false, the police said you should comply with home invaders instead of resisting... https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-top-cop-wa...

So.. I live in Ontario. And I actually agree with that statement. Why would you resist and risk your life instead of just complying? Material things aren't worth actually getting hurt over. The implication that "the police say this because they can't stop the crime" is IMO not the right take-away. The correct take-away is that a certain level of crime is unavoidable in practice, and you should prioritize your life ov…

[deleted]

Re: Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

#65

Post by Insanity »

petsfed wrote: post #62
Insanity wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So.. I live in Ontario. And I actually agree with that statement. Why would you resist and risk your life instead of just complying? Material things aren't worth actually getting hurt over. The implication that "the police say this because they can't stop the crime" is IMO not the right take-away. The correct take-away is that a certain level of crime is unavoidable in practice, and you should prioritize your life ov…

The problem with this line of thinking is that home invasion is a different kind of crime from breaking and entering. With breaking and entering, the goal is to get what they can with a minimum of fuss. Locked doors, barking dogs, automatic lights, security systems, etc are all great deterrents, because the goal is to get as much as possible while avoiding capture. The table stakes are that the burglar can get in and…

Agreed with you actually. This might be me not being a native English speaker, and 'home invasion' and 'breaking and entering' where the same thing in my mind. But with the differences between the two that you've highlighted here, I do agree that different situations require different approaches.

Re: Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

#66

Post by mandevil »

dmix wrote: post #32

I used to believe strongly in financial sanctions over war but I'm becoming more skeptical. Markets and industry are a very hard thing to constrain at a global scale. To do it effectively you basically encourage a giant financial surveillance state and need put huge pressure on partner countries - who often don't even implement it meaningfully. You make business harder for everyone and create lucrative black market o…

25 years ago, IR scholar Dan Drezner wrote the book _The Sanctions Paradox_ which tried to explain, in an IR theory sort of way, why sanctions are used so often and achieve so little- they don't overthrow governments, they rarely even manage to make governments stop doing the things we don't like.

He recently revisited that in FP magazine (https://foreignpolicy.com/2025/09/10/sanctions-paradox-russi...) arguing for keeping sanctions on Russia even though they clearly aren't going to coerce Russia into abandoning their war in Ukraine. The first reason is to re-enforce the global norm against territorial expansion. We've managed to go 80-odd years with a reasonable global norm against redrawing borders, and it is worth a lot to demonstrate that we- the global community- do not acquiesce. And the other reason is to weaken their economy for the grinding war of attrition that is currently happening, and not make territorial expansion easy for them.

Re: Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

#67

Post by recursive »

renewiltord wrote: post #28
colechristensen wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Due process needs to be a lot faster and it could be. Things which warrant immediate action are delayed by months, years, or decades by wildly inefficient and slow processes that have nothing to do with someone's right to fair judgement.

We shouldn’t rush to judgment. A few years sounds like a good period of time for things that could affect someone’s life. One could argue it should take a century or more to convict people of such crimes. How can we be sure it’s not politically motivated? Only way is to ensure that we wait for political change and see if the crime is still to be prosecuted.

The longer it takes, the less of a deterrent it is. What would even be the point of convicting someone a century later?

Re: Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

#68

Post by jltsiren »

mindslight wrote: post #57
beauzero wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only other options are psychological or kinetic.

Why not tariffs? Basically the continuous version of discrete sanctions, that wouldn't encourage as much routing around. Tax Russian oil/gas at the max point in the Laffer (-esque) curve, with all the revenue flowing as direct aid to Ukraine. (I know 'tariff' has become a dirty word these days to due the obvious abuse, but I swear I'm making this comment in good faith)

Europe kept buying Russian oil and gas, because other sources could not come online quickly enough. Tariffs would have only made energy even more expensive than it already was. Now it's mostly Hungary and Slovakia buying Russian energy, as well as some LNG imports. Those two countries are not too keen on sanctioning Russia, especially in ways that would hurt their economy. Any attempts to impose tariffs on energy imports from Russia would have led to a major internal crisis in the EU.

Re: Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

#69

Post by mothballed »

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #38
GenerWork wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought this was made up nonsense, but for those who are thinking the same thing as me, a Toronto police officer really recommended doing exactly this [0]. [0] https://globalnews.ca/news/10359055/leave-car-keys-the-front...

It's good advice. Losing a car is much less worse than personal injury or worse. Everybody's a toughguy until a methhead who can't feel pain stabs you 15 times. Should the police crack down? Sure, but they aren't magicians, crime isn't gonna magically dissolve tomorrow. In the mean time, keep yourself safe by not inviting harm.

When you defend yourself you don't just defend yourself, but every other victim that would come after you.

Re: Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

#70

Post by to11mtm »

zdragnar wrote: post #54
koakuma-chan wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah and you can probably get insurance against theft right?

It becomes unaffordable pretty quickly for a lot of people when such theft becomes endemic.

Yep, just ask Kia owners as a recent example.
Post reply on HN