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Signal Secure Backups

signal.org

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Re: Signal Secure Backups

#61

Post by 3np »

chimeracoder wrote: post #10
elvisloops wrote: post #7

I can't believe Signal is doing this. Signal is known for its cutting-edge cryptographic protocol, but this feature has the effect of throwing that out the window and replacing it with a single static key. If a device with this enabled goes through the whole advanced protocol to receive a message (double ratcheting etc), then turns around and uploads it back to Signal’s servers with a static key, isn't that a roundab…

> They’re calling it "opt-in," but it doesn't look like that's actually true? You can’t know whether someone you’re talking to -- who may not understand the implications -- has enabled it. In group chats, it looks like a single person turning it on eliminates signal protocol for everyone in the chat. People already can export backups of the messages they receive, in plain text, and publish those on the Internet if th…

> Signal's threat model has never included "you are directly messaging an adversarial party and expect to retain control over redistribution of those messages".

On the contrary.

https://signal.org/blog/signal-doesnt-recall/?pubDate=202508...

Re: Signal Secure Backups

#62

Post by nottorp »

Sesse__ wrote: post #57
nottorp wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once you have it on disk, how do you get it away from your phone? adb pull no worky? At least for HN readers.

Any backup that needs manual intervention is no backup.

Thought people are talking about backups without a "cloud" involved. So you'd need to manually connect your phone to something...

Re: Signal Secure Backups

#63

Post by justoreply »

Sesse__ wrote: post #48
poisonborz wrote: post #39

Backing up Signal on Android for free and offline was ~always possible. The app creates a multi GB backup file on the phone memory under the Signal folder that you can just copy out and back on a new phone. The file is encrypted with the passcode and the database can be extracted. https://github.com/bepaald/signalbackup-tools

There are a couple of problems with the existing backup: 1. It is non-incremental. This means you'll need about as much free space on your phone as your Signal database takes, and it may take many hours to make if your database is large (mine is 18GB). I used to wake up to find my phone had not even fully charged because it had been so busy writing Signal backups. 2. Once you have it on disk, how do you get it away f…

You can still use https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.github.catfriend1.syncth...

Re: Signal Secure Backups

#65

Post by autoexec »

Sesse__ wrote: post #48
poisonborz wrote: post #39

Backing up Signal on Android for free and offline was ~always possible. The app creates a multi GB backup file on the phone memory under the Signal folder that you can just copy out and back on a new phone. The file is encrypted with the passcode and the database can be extracted. https://github.com/bepaald/signalbackup-tools

There are a couple of problems with the existing backup: 1. It is non-incremental. This means you'll need about as much free space on your phone as your Signal database takes, and it may take many hours to make if your database is large (mine is 18GB). I used to wake up to find my phone had not even fully charged because it had been so busy writing Signal backups. 2. Once you have it on disk, how do you get it away f…

> Once you have it on disk, how do you get it away from your phone?

plug your phone into a computer? Install Termux and use one of the countless command line programs designed to transfer bits over a network?

Re: Signal Secure Backups

#66

Post by zamadatix »

Sesse__ wrote: post #48
poisonborz wrote: post #39

Backing up Signal on Android for free and offline was ~always possible. The app creates a multi GB backup file on the phone memory under the Signal folder that you can just copy out and back on a new phone. The file is encrypted with the passcode and the database can be extracted. https://github.com/bepaald/signalbackup-tools

There are a couple of problems with the existing backup: 1. It is non-incremental. This means you'll need about as much free space on your phone as your Signal database takes, and it may take many hours to make if your database is large (mine is 18GB). I used to wake up to find my phone had not even fully charged because it had been so busy writing Signal backups. 2. Once you have it on disk, how do you get it away f…

The $1.99/m is not for the up front work of fixing what sucks about current backups though, it's just bundling those fixes in with YACSS (Yet Another Cloud Storage Subscription) is the only way to get people to pay their "reasonable" recurring fee.

People here seem to want to answer the question of how to copy data most directly, but only because that's how the problem was phrased. I'm not convinced "users had no way to sync data on their phone" was/is a real problem worth paying for YACSS for in the first place.

Re: Signal Secure Backups

#67

Post by greysonp »

akkartik wrote: post #4

This looks brilliant. I just hope they make it easy to do test restores. In particular, I want to test restore without perturbing my main device. Let me restore using the secret key on a new device. When I install Signal on a computer it won't show me message history. Will backups allow me to view _all_ my message history on a computer? A big screen is very helpful for browsing lots of messages.

Hi there, Signal dev here. You can sort of do this! You can restore on your new device, and while you will be unregistered on your old device, all of the data is still there. So if you see that something is amiss on the new device, you could re-register on your old device and you'd be right back where you started. This is actually one of the ways we test the feature with our own personal data.

Re: Signal Secure Backups

#68

Post by wpollock »

chimeracoder wrote: post #21
georgeck wrote: post #15

It would be really useful to have more client-side control over media storage. That way, I could better manage storage growth without wiping entire threads. For example, being able to see all media across chats, sort by file size, and optionally group by conversation would make it much easier to clean things up.

> It would be really useful to have more client-side control over media storage. That way, I could better manage storage growth without wiping entire threads. > For example, being able to see all media across chats, sort by file size, and optionally group by conversation would make it much easier to clean things up. I have good news for you: this already exists. On Android: Settings >> Data and Storage >> Manage Stor…

On my Samsung: Settings >> Device Care >> Storage

Re: Signal Secure Backups

#69

Post by teiferer »

vigilans wrote: post #47
X-Istence wrote: post #43

I already pay Apple for storage, please just back up my chats/media to iCloud.

This BS is why I completely stopped donating to the signal foundation. The messages are mine, not theirs, and yet they refuse to allow me to handle them how I deem fit.

Have you read the article? They are working on it.
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