John Coltrane's Tone Circle • Hacker News Board

Re: John Coltrane's Tone Circle

#61

Post by rdtsc » Thu, Sep 04, 2025, 5:46 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #45

rdtsc wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing upper-middle class people love more than worshiping dead black Americans, while treating their descendants like dangerous parasites. I know, right? It's those Dutch folks living in Bulgaria hating black American descendants again, eh? /s So, to be serious, do you have evidence that Roelant Hollanderr is treating black American descendants as "dangerous parasites"? Those are pretty hefty accusations. I haven…

Not to detract from your point but he's been back in NL for a while I believe.

Good point, he does say he moved back in 2020 and I missed that.

Re: John Coltrane's Tone Circle

#62

Post by nemo44x » Thu, Sep 04, 2025, 11:32 AM UTC

rexpop wrote: post #59

nemo44x wrote: post #55

[flagged]

My god, but you're a relentless philistine.

I don’t know, I’m rather well read and have an esoteric vinyl collection. But jazz is just not good music at all.

Re: John Coltrane's Tone Circle

#63

Post by freejazz » Thu, Sep 04, 2025, 2:26 PM UTC

lioeters wrote: post #48

freejazz wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any particular chapter in this issue of Arcana?

The following chapter includes Coltrane's diagram, briefly comparing it to a North Indian Tai Chakra drawing. Chapter 25 - Music and Mysticism, Rhythm and Form: A Blues Romance in 12 Parts - Adam Rudolph This is a better scanned copy: https://archive.org/download/zorn-john-ed.-arcana-v.-musicia... (PDF)

Thank you!

Re: John Coltrane's Tone Circle

#64

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Sep 05, 2025, 6:08 AM UTC

rectang wrote: post #13

A few months ago, I was studying Giant Steps and I came across the “Giant Steps is actually very simple (yes, really)” video by Dave Pollack. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd75Mwo4JNo Pollack argues that the main reason that Giant Steps is such a high mountain is because it is traditionally played at such a ferocious tempo. Slow it down, and the Coltrane Changes become fairly ordinary ii-V-I substitution progressio…

[deleted]

Re: John Coltrane's Tone Circle

#65

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Sep 05, 2025, 6:12 AM UTC

[deleted]

Re: John Coltrane's Tone Circle

#66

Post by ZoomZoomZoom » Fri, Sep 05, 2025, 8:50 AM UTC

nemo44x wrote: post #55

[flagged]

Got to a local "free" jam session in an artsy underground club. Half of them play avant-garde, half noise rock. Most are not sure what the difference is. Most feel great by not being constrained by following the rules or having the skills of playing the instruments. Cute on a good day.

Go to a jazz jam where non-pros are not afraid to go. Still usually a downer for the listener. However, they all know they suck.

Re: John Coltrane's Tone Circle

#67

Post by xenobeb » Fri, Sep 05, 2025, 11:02 AM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #20

Nothing upper-middle class people love more than worshiping dead black Americans, while treating their descendants like dangerous parasites. They were so cool, such genius! I can't wait to be the authority on them, and make more on redefining them than they ever saw in their lives, or to buy the new product that no black American makes a dime from. One day, every black American will be gone, and all that will be left…

You obviously have absolutely no idea what you are talking about when it comes to music.

Coltrane is so respected because he use to fall asleep with his saxophone in his mouth because that is the level he would practice.

He represents the ultimate dedication to mastering an instrument.

You should really try making some friends with black people that like jazz so you can understand what a clueless thought this is.

Re: John Coltrane's Tone Circle

#68

Post by kzrdude » Fri, Sep 05, 2025, 3:26 PM UTC

tshaddox wrote: post #12

> Thelonious Monk once said “All musicians are subconsciously mathematicians“. I haven’t heard that one. I think I prefer this one, attributed to Leibniz: “Music is the pleasure the human mind experiences from counting without being aware that it is counting.”

All these math quips are way overdone, there's not much use in trying to put mathematics into everyday music IMO.

Re: John Coltrane's Tone Circle

#69

Post by jim-jim-jim » Sat, Sep 06, 2025, 4:41 AM UTC

yubblegum wrote: post #2

See also: Arcana V. Music, Magic & Mysticism . Ed: John Zorn, Hips Road 2010 https://archive.org/details/zorn-john-ed.-arcana-v.-musician...

A late reply, but thanks for sharing this. The names in the table of contents alone suggest that I'm in for a good read.