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Untangling the myths and mysteries of Dvorak and QWERTY (2023)

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Re: Untangling the myths and mysteries of Dvorak and QWERTY (2023)

#61

Post by justsomehnguy »

alpaca128 wrote: post #13

The real problem with current keyboards is the physical arrangement of the keys. Staggered rows instead of columns make them less ergonomic, the oversized spacebar wastes much of the most valuable space on the keyboard. The thumb as one of the strongest fingers has almost nothing to do, with both thumbs mostly sharing a single key while typing text. While the weak pinky finger has to cover more keys than the others.…

> the oversized spacebar wastes much of the most valuable space on the keyboard

This is what puzzles me most of the mechanical keyboard market: you can have whatever shit cramped in on a 60%/75% keyboard but the spacebar is still the long slab.

Eg: Shurikey Hanzo 001 65% is especially... bold in this

Re: Untangling the myths and mysteries of Dvorak and QWERTY (2023)

#62

Post by yoyohello13 »

Zambyte wrote: post #58
alpaca128 wrote: post #13

The real problem with current keyboards is the physical arrangement of the keys. Staggered rows instead of columns make them less ergonomic, the oversized spacebar wastes much of the most valuable space on the keyboard. The thumb as one of the strongest fingers has almost nothing to do, with both thumbs mostly sharing a single key while typing text. While the weak pinky finger has to cover more keys than the others.…

I switched to Dvorak around five years ago now. I decided to switch at the same time as switching to a columnar split keyboard (specifically the ZSA Moonlander, which is still my primary keyboard (my secondary is the ZSA Voyager for travel)). I did this switch at the same time, because I felt like it would be a sufficiently different keyboard that I wouldn't have as concrete of muscle memory, and I wouldn't be fighti…

Same for me. I’ve got a Voyager as my main keyboard and I use Colemak. I didn’t have any fatigue or anything, I was just curious what all the hype with alternative layouts was about.

I’m about the same speed as I was on qwerty, but my back and shoulders feel a lot better with the split keyboard. It feels really good to type with an alternative layout, but I wouldn’t necessarily recommend it, the learning process was pretty arduous for me, and I’ve kind of lost my ability to use qwerty.

I would definitely recommend a split keyboard though. The ergonomics are much better.

Re: Untangling the myths and mysteries of Dvorak and QWERTY (2023)

#63

Post by yoyohello13 »

grim_io wrote: post #7

I've tried to switch to Dvorak, but after a year I was just tired of the universally shitty default keybinding experience. Either customize every app to better match the layout, or live with the afterthought UX. Oh, and gaming. Better get used to switching to qwerty.

I use colemak so a lot of keybinds in programs are similar enough to not be too bad. Vim was surprisingly easy to adjust to, although hjkl are in terrible positions in colemak. It’s kind of nice though because it forces you not to rely on hjkl too much. For games, I usually just switch back to qwerty.

Re: Untangling the myths and mysteries of Dvorak and QWERTY (2023)

#64

Post by glxxyz »

I switched to Dvorak about 27 years ago. And I switched back to Qwerty about 26.75 years ago. I got to the point where I could comfortably touch-type in Dvorak to about the same speed as I could Qwerty. While Dvorak was a slightly better layout ergonomically, it wasn't good enough to justify the frustration of switching to a computer that I didn't own at work. I've heard that some people can switch easily and touch-type on both layouts, but I couldn't.

Re: Untangling the myths and mysteries of Dvorak and QWERTY (2023)

#65

Post by kqr »

glxxyz wrote: post #64

I switched to Dvorak about 27 years ago. And I switched back to Qwerty about 26.75 years ago. I got to the point where I could comfortably touch-type in Dvorak to about the same speed as I could Qwerty. While Dvorak was a slightly better layout ergonomically, it wasn't good enough to justify the frustration of switching to a computer that I didn't own at work. I've heard that some people can switch easily and touch-t…

I mean, switching to a non-owned computer will be frustrating when you're used to Dvorak, because you're used to a more ergonomical layout.

I touch-type both Colemak and Qwerty fine, but I still sigh a little internally any time I have to use the inferior layout for more than a few minutes.

Re: Untangling the myths and mysteries of Dvorak and QWERTY (2023)

#66

Post by kqr »

dmaa wrote: post #23

I was motivated to learn Dvorak in order to get rid of bad keyboard habits. And happily stuck to it. Not sure that I type any faster, but it feels somehow as a more rhytmical, much more pleasant experience.

The rhythmic feeling is Dvorak's hand alternation. I use Colemak because it is better for my native tongue, but I really would have preferred the rhythmic typing of Dvorak had it worked as well for other languages.

Re: Untangling the myths and mysteries of Dvorak and QWERTY (2023)

#67

Post by mlx0x »

kqr wrote: post #65
glxxyz wrote: post #64

I switched to Dvorak about 27 years ago. And I switched back to Qwerty about 26.75 years ago. I got to the point where I could comfortably touch-type in Dvorak to about the same speed as I could Qwerty. While Dvorak was a slightly better layout ergonomically, it wasn't good enough to justify the frustration of switching to a computer that I didn't own at work. I've heard that some people can switch easily and touch-t…

I mean, switching to a non-owned computer will be frustrating when you're used to Dvorak, because you're used to a more ergonomical layout. I touch-type both Colemak and Qwerty fine, but I still sigh a little internally any time I have to use the inferior layout for more than a few minutes.

.

Re: Untangling the myths and mysteries of Dvorak and QWERTY (2023)

#70

Post by bigstrat2003 »

justsomehnguy wrote: post #61
alpaca128 wrote: post #13

The real problem with current keyboards is the physical arrangement of the keys. Staggered rows instead of columns make them less ergonomic, the oversized spacebar wastes much of the most valuable space on the keyboard. The thumb as one of the strongest fingers has almost nothing to do, with both thumbs mostly sharing a single key while typing text. While the weak pinky finger has to cover more keys than the others.…

> the oversized spacebar wastes much of the most valuable space on the keyboard This is what puzzles me most of the mechanical keyboard market: you can have whatever shit cramped in on a 60%/75% keyboard but the spacebar is still the long slab. Eg: Shurikey Hanzo 001 65% is especially... bold in this

What puzzles me about the mechanical keyboard market is why they go for the small keyboards to begin with. I can't imagine anyone has a desk so small that the handful of inches shaved off really makes a difference. So why subject oneself to having to relearn all the muscle memory, and the lack of useful keys? It makes no sense to me.
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