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Windows 11 Update KB5063878 Causing SSD Failures

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Re: Windows 11 Update KB5063878 Causing SSD Failures

#61

Post by LeifCarrotson »

ahartmetz wrote: post #18

Install "Windows 10 IoT Enterprise 2021 LTSC" if you don't mind buying grey market keys. Less crapware, more mature and less enshittified than 11, and security fixes until 2032. I don't want to endorse Windows at all (use Linux if you can!). But maybe you need it to occasionally test something or whatever.

You don't have to buy grey market keys, use the public ones installed through mass gravel. Open source, hosted on Microsoft's own GitHub - it's practically an endorsement!

> https://github.com/massgravel/Microsoft-Activation-Scripts

Re: Windows 11 Update KB5063878 Causing SSD Failures

#62

Post by Hilift »

dale_glass wrote: post #4

But what's actually happening? There seems to be a lack of technical information. And why does the SSD allow this to happen? A SSD has its own onboard computer, it's not just allowing the OS to do whatever it wants. Obviously the OS can write way too much and reach the endurance limit but that should have been figured out almost instantly, with OS write stats and SMART stats.

It is not published yet on the Microsoft update page (https://support.microsoft.com/KB/5063878). And it only applies to Windows 11 24 H2.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/5536733/...

Re: Windows 11 Update KB5063878 Causing SSD Failures

#63

Post by winkelmann »

ahartmetz wrote: post #18

Install "Windows 10 IoT Enterprise 2021 LTSC" if you don't mind buying grey market keys. Less crapware, more mature and less enshittified than 11, and security fixes until 2032. I don't want to endorse Windows at all (use Linux if you can!). But maybe you need it to occasionally test something or whatever.

> if you don't mind buying grey market keys

Please don't buy "grey market" MS keys (i.e. super cheap keys or keys for products not sold to end users, like LTSC).

Either buy keys from legitimate vendors or use alternative activation methods (emulated KMS, etc.). I believe a lot of these grey market keys come either from MSDN subscriptions or leaked MAK keys, in either case, you aren't really paying for the product, you're just funneling money to sketchy people.

Re: Windows 11 Update KB5063878 Causing SSD Failures

#64

Post by bee_rider »

jamesnorden wrote: post #32
majkinetor wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, I used various Linux distros for years and the update problems happen there all the time, I think even more TBH, and require substantial technical expertise to fix them. IMO, the only good way is "if it works, don't fix it", which means, no updates. People are seriously overhyping updates. I stopped updating all the stuff - OSes, smart locks, android apps, TVs, BP monitors - I honestly had multiple update proble…

I've also been using Linux for years (Arch, btw) and never had an update break my install or cause issues, I've only had to fix the Linux bootloader when Windows overwrote it after a major update, multiple times...

Using a rolling release distro is not really a fair comparison. Little frequent updates are a lot easier than giant catastrophic ones.

Re: Windows 11 Update KB5063878 Causing SSD Failures

#65

Post by majkinetor »

dijit wrote: post #48
majkinetor wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love and use Linux, what do you mean? Maybe a little bit too defensive that your favorite OS is not perfect?

I think the issue is that we excuse worse behaviour of Windows because of a preconceived notion that "Windows is easy and linux is hard". The amount of registry hacks and debloat scripts and messed up updates I've had to endure on Windows makes my Linux experience seem very breezy by comparison to be perfectly honest with you. The main issue I have with my own reasoning here is that about 20 years ago when I was gett…

I am sure your mum uses 0.000001% of Linux features. She could probably work equally well on Commodore 64 with browser and mail. So that amounts to nothing. Besides, she has you to fix any issues, and Mint is the recommended distribution to use if you are switching from Windows. So there's that.

Your own usage of Linux is irrelevant to the mainstream user. If you use anything for 20 years, you will probably be good with it if you care at least a bit. Most people don't care, it is a mean to an end. Hell, I am in IT since kindergarten and I don't care sometimes, it happens now and then that I just want some stuff to work without any issues.

Linux is harder than Windows. It can't be anything else, as it is not originally made for mainstream user, but for engineers and geeks. We came a long way since inception though and today many distros offer decent OS for mainstream user.

Re: Windows 11 Update KB5063878 Causing SSD Failures

#66

Post by p_ing »

hosteur wrote: post #58
p_ing wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you get Linus Bucks by replacing your efivars with Doom?

You seem to be implying that Linus Thorvalds should also be liable for damage caused by Linux kernel. I don't think the analogy is good. You might be better off replacing Linus with Apple and Linux with macOS. In that case, I would definitely think Apple should be held liable if an update to macOS bricks some hardware in a Mac. But with Linux, it is different: You do not have a business relationship with Linus. Sure,…

You took my reply a little too seriously :-)

Re: Windows 11 Update KB5063878 Causing SSD Failures

#67

Post by BoredPositron »

johanvts wrote: post #41
4ggr0 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though I professionally work with Linux I still don't trust it enough for gaming. I know that Steam does great things with Proton, my issue is that I'm not the type of gamer who constantly plays the same game - Play a game for how long the story or my interests lasts, then switch to the next game. And after a whole day of debugging and hair pulling at work I just don't feel like then also debugging why a game is…

Did you try bazzite OS, the only issue I have had was to select the proton build of CS, everything else works out of the box. Except for games that need anti-cheat… So I still ended up with a windows partition.

I guess he wants to use his general computing device as a general computing device and not as a console.

Re: Windows 11 Update KB5063878 Causing SSD Failures

#68

Post by akimbostrawman »

dijit wrote: post #53
akimbostrawman wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AUR issues are not arch issues "AUR packages are user-produced content. These PKGBUILDs are completely unofficial and have not been thoroughly vetted. Any use of the provided files is at your own risk." Usually just rebuilding a AUR package will fix most issues.

I would say it's fair, but then it leads to an interesting problem that could happen. Build a tiny core, ask the community to extend: never be liable for any issue because important packages that are essentially required aren't part of the core and thus any criticism is invalid. Not saying that's happening here, but it could happen by this definition. But, ok, there are more issues anyway, for example it's pretty com…

Arch isn't liable regardless. It's a community driven project run by volunteers without contracts.

>it's pretty common that you have to update archlinux-keychain before an upgrade can succeed because the signing keys

"Since 2022-07-29, the archlinux-keyring-wkd-sync.service and the associated systemd timer have been created and enabled by default"

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Pacman/Package_signing#Upgr...

Re: Windows 11 Update KB5063878 Causing SSD Failures

#69

Post by dijit »

majkinetor wrote: post #65
dijit wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue is that we excuse worse behaviour of Windows because of a preconceived notion that "Windows is easy and linux is hard". The amount of registry hacks and debloat scripts and messed up updates I've had to endure on Windows makes my Linux experience seem very breezy by comparison to be perfectly honest with you. The main issue I have with my own reasoning here is that about 20 years ago when I was gett…

I am sure your mum uses 0.000001% of Linux features. She could probably work equally well on Commodore 64 with browser and mail. So that amounts to nothing. Besides, she has you to fix any issues, and Mint is the recommended distribution to use if you are switching from Windows. So there's that. Your own usage of Linux is irrelevant to the mainstream user. If you use anything for 20 years, you will probably be good w…

Yeah, my mum could work with a chromebook- but why does that matter- what are we talking about, ease of use or power users?

Because if its power users; having command of the whole operating system is just objectively better. Nothing hidden or forbidden and no oddities and quirks that are non-detiministic, indeterministic and actively prohibit debugging.

If its ease of use: then the easiest laptop operating system to maintain is… Linux (in the form of a chromebook).

That said, I really haven’t helped my mum with her laptop- I actually thought she didn’t use it because she didn’t ask me any support questions but it turned out that it “just worked” and she clicked the update pop-up once in a while like I asked her to.

> Linux is harder than Windows. It can't be anything else, as it is not originally made for mainstream user

This sounds like cope. Accessibility can be better on Windows for this reason… people being paid to drudge through an accessibility checklist- but the reality is not this. CommodoreOS was also built for humans and its harder to use than OpenBSD (which makes no apologies to non-power users). Your entire thesis here is bunk- there’s just countless examples of people thinking they know best for users but actively harming them instead (by hiding information or misleading them intentionally).

Re: Windows 11 Update KB5063878 Causing SSD Failures

#70

Post by gruez »

dark-star wrote: post #44
Sesse__ wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And why does the SSD allow this to happen? A SSD has its own onboard computer, it's not just allowing the OS to do whatever it wants. If the device is DRAM-less, much of its central information (large parts of the FTL, in particular) resides in the host's RAM, where the OS could presumably touch it. If that area of RAM is _somehow_ being overwritten or out-of-sync or otherwise unreliable, you can get pretty bad cor…

no, the FTL is still in the SSD unless it's a host-managed SSD which is also operating in host-managed mode, which none of the articles have mentioned to be related to the issue

No, some SSDs use host memory buffer (HMB) to cache FTL tables. If the FTL cache gets corrupted, and that causes critical data to be overwritten, that could brick the SSD. For instance, if the FTL table was corrupted in such a way where a page for a random file is mapped to the page for the SSD's FTL (or other critical data), and the OS/user tries to write to that random file.
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