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The Minecraft Code (2024) [video]

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Re: The Minecraft Code (2024) [video]

#61

Post by ohdeargodno »

jaccola wrote: post #10
lovich wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, part of the deal with IP law is you get government protection for your idea, in exchange for society having access to it. I’m personally of the mind that if my tax dollars went towards protecting your shit, you owe society access. This is not defending the ones who believe they have the right to things sans that deal

This argument is so ridiculous I must be misunderstanding you. By your logic you owe me access your house since my tax dollars pay for the legal system that gives you property rights?!

Assuming you're american: you already do.

While the US Army isn't allowed to use your house in peace time, if it has any tactical value in war time, it can and will have access to your house. The US Army is the personification of the tax dollars of GP, through the government.

Because of the US's relationship with personal property, it has been decided that only the worst case scenarios lead to these rights being "shared", but on less important subjects, especially ones that cost you nothing in the case of having a copy of your work made, yes. Things like the Audio Home Recording Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Home_Recording_Act) make it legal for me to make a copy of your work. What happens with this copy depends, maybe I'll share it with friends (and in this case, IP law will consider it minor enough that they won't care), maybe I'll resell it and make money from it (which IP law definitely considers a big no no).

You must be naive if you believe that you have any right to both benefit from public protection _and_ keep full control over how gets used.

Re: The Minecraft Code (2024) [video]

#62

Post by lovich »

nkrisc wrote: post #56
c22 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then how do we determine who has priority for the couch? The singleton nature of the couch requires some form of access control to prevent disputes. No such restriction exists for a memory of the couch, once we have each been exposed to it we can enjoy the memory perpetually and simultaneously with no conflicts. Artificially restricting what can be remembered and by whom solely on the basis that some forms of mem…

If someone else is sleeping on it, it’s not your couch until you remove them from it and occupy it yourself. Unless we agree upon the abstract concept of “owning” property even while you do not physically possess it. You need look no father than a kindergarten to see the natural way of things: the toy belongs to whichever toddler is holding it. While not entirely comparable, it is no more absurd to extend the idea to…

The discussion was started on IP law, you have to agree on abstract concepts of ownership as a bedrock of the entire system since you can’t physically be in possession of an idea.

If you need to bring us down to kindergarten or toddler level for us to no longer need to come to an agreement on the definition of ownership, I’m not sure there’s much more to discuss

Re: The Minecraft Code (2024) [video]

#63

Post by lovich »

nkrisc wrote: post #21
lovich wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, part of the deal with IP law is you get government protection for your idea, in exchange for society having access to it. I’m personally of the mind that if my tax dollars went towards protecting your shit, you owe society access. This is not defending the ones who believe they have the right to things sans that deal

> I’m personally of the mind that if my tax dollars went towards protecting your shit, you owe society access. Our tax dollars go towards protecting lots of different things for lots of different people (including me and you) that we have no rights to at all, nor ever will.

And they are taxed in different ways to pay for it(property taxes) or I and society at large get some benefit(protecting utility companies property that I can’t access)

Re: The Minecraft Code (2024) [video]

#64

Post by lovich »

zdragnar wrote: post #17
lovich wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, part of the deal with IP law is you get government protection for your idea, in exchange for society having access to it. I’m personally of the mind that if my tax dollars went towards protecting your shit, you owe society access. This is not defending the ones who believe they have the right to things sans that deal

If that were the case then no physical artwork could be privately held. That, too, is covered by IP laws but there is no obligation to provide society access.

Physical artwork is not covered by IP law. Reproductions of the artwork are covered by IP law. Physical property is already covered by regular property rights

Re: The Minecraft Code (2024) [video]

#65

Post by Matthyze »

cedws wrote: post #11
boredpudding wrote: post #2

It's solved, full write-up here: https://www.reddit.com/r/MinecraftUnlimited/comments/1cvo5py... Tl:dr; It was a release file for their Minecon event. It was never meant to be public. Obsessing over a password protected in a company's S3 bucket is weird and crosses many limits.

I disagree with this and what Dinnerbone says about locks. It doesn’t matter who file was intended for, it’s on the internet, if people want to use their silicon to do some mathematics to turn some numbers into some other numbers that’s their choice. It’s not equivalent to breaking into a house.

I personally don't see downloadability as a significant factor in the morality of breaching security. If it's bad to hack a login screen to gain access to private information, why wouldn't it be bad to hack encryption to do the same thing? What moral dimension does downloadability alter?

I think the house analogy fails because you cannot duplicate a house, take it somewhere else, and attempt to break into it there. If you could, that would undoubtedly be seen as a violation.

Re: The Minecraft Code (2024) [video]

#66

Post by creatonez »

0x6c6f6c wrote: post #50
teekert wrote: post #29

Maybe add to title: “but is solved now”. Would have saved me some time thinking they might go somewhere.

It was solved? They never decrypted the original file, only the decoy.

Both of them were eventually decrypted. The decoy was a misdirection attempt to get people to shut up about the whole thing, since the original contained a passphrase that had been reused multiple times for Mojang's internal operations. But it only caused more people to go digging as they noticed the hash changed, along with an employee acting highly defensive about it.

They used "boxpig41" for the original and "thespicemustflow" for the decoy. Both of them contain the jar and assets for Minecraft 1.0, but the original also contained an ordinary copy of the Minecraft launcher, so that the files could used to run it during a live event even if internet access goes down, hence the larger file size.

Re: The Minecraft Code (2024) [video]

#67

Post by throwzasdf »

astrobe_ wrote: post #27
picafrost wrote: post #12

Internet denizens love opening a locked box. This phenomenon has been weaponized by the gaming industry in the form of loot boxes.

It is strange to me that people obsess on programming in-game with "red stone" etc. That said I am dayjob programmer so the last thing I want to do on my free time and is to program stuff. I made a game that uses the Luanti "voxel" engine (MC-likes games of course, but also transposition of other genres), and even programming that is bit of a chore but that's the price to pay to play the game you want to play (there'…

[dead]

Re: The Minecraft Code (2024) [video]

#68

Post by throwzasdf »

cedws wrote: post #11
boredpudding wrote: post #2

It's solved, full write-up here: https://www.reddit.com/r/MinecraftUnlimited/comments/1cvo5py... Tl:dr; It was a release file for their Minecon event. It was never meant to be public. Obsessing over a password protected in a company's S3 bucket is weird and crosses many limits.

I disagree with this and what Dinnerbone says about locks. It doesn’t matter who file was intended for, it’s on the internet, if people want to use their silicon to do some mathematics to turn some numbers into some other numbers that’s their choice. It’s not equivalent to breaking into a house.

[dead]

Re: The Minecraft Code (2024) [video]

#69

Post by c22 »

nkrisc wrote: post #56
c22 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then how do we determine who has priority for the couch? The singleton nature of the couch requires some form of access control to prevent disputes. No such restriction exists for a memory of the couch, once we have each been exposed to it we can enjoy the memory perpetually and simultaneously with no conflicts. Artificially restricting what can be remembered and by whom solely on the basis that some forms of mem…

If someone else is sleeping on it, it’s not your couch until you remove them from it and occupy it yourself. Unless we agree upon the abstract concept of “owning” property even while you do not physically possess it. You need look no father than a kindergarten to see the natural way of things: the toy belongs to whichever toddler is holding it. While not entirely comparable, it is no more absurd to extend the idea to…

Yes, a simple lock (in the concurrent software sense) is one system that could work. Harking back to my own kindergarten experience, though, I am not sure if such a system is best for minimizing disputes.

Re: The Minecraft Code (2024) [video]

#70

Post by lawlessone »

astrobe_ wrote: post #27
picafrost wrote: post #12

Internet denizens love opening a locked box. This phenomenon has been weaponized by the gaming industry in the form of loot boxes.

It is strange to me that people obsess on programming in-game with "red stone" etc. That said I am dayjob programmer so the last thing I want to do on my free time and is to program stuff. I made a game that uses the Luanti "voxel" engine (MC-likes games of course, but also transposition of other genres), and even programming that is bit of a chore but that's the price to pay to play the game you want to play (there'…

Yeah i thought similar.

I like watching videos about these contraptions people build. Wouldn't dream of making on myself.

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