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Staff disquiet as Alan Turing Institute faces identity crisis

theguardian.com

61–70 of 95 posts

Re: Staff disquiet as Alan Turing Institute faces identity crisis

#61
post #2

What international leadership in AI does the UK have? any models produced?

3000 AI companies in the UK.

DeepMind obviously, but also top ranking universities working on AI like Edinburgh and Oxbridge.

The US is five times larger than the UK, so no it’s not likely to be comparable. But the UK is up there.

Re: Staff disquiet as Alan Turing Institute faces identity crisis

#62

Reading between the lines - actually, just reading the lines - it sounds like another organisation that got infested with the kind of people who are apt to ruin organisations, and perhaps an attempt it being made to fumigate it, and they don't like that.

AKA academics.

A lot of academic researchers who couldn’t get jobs elsewhere ended up there.

The org is fundamentally dysfunctional according to an insider I spoke to. They blamed leadership.

They should have isolated it from academia - no hires from universities allowed, only hiring people who had previously worked in industry for the last few years.

Re: Staff disquiet as Alan Turing Institute faces identity crisis

#63
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just the HQ, the only AI researcher I know personally is an American who moved to London to work on AI with DeepMind well after the acquisition.

The registered HQ and a large research center are in London, but ownership, executive control, substantial staffing, a big fraction of the training/serving compute, and the commercialization pathway run through Alphabet's U.S. operations, so the work is, in practical and legal senses, U.S.-based... See also https://gwern.net/doc/reinforcement-learning/deepmind/2019-d... "As part of a wider group reorganisation, the C…

> Honestly, claiming DeepMind is still some scrappy London-based startup is quite unfortunate :/

Since I didn't do that, I'm not sure how that is relevant or productive.

> work is, in practical and legal senses, U.S.-based...

This seems factually false. The work happening there has to comply with UK laws, not US laws and the practical locus of researchers located there provides a pool of talent that makes it a better place to do an AI startup than places that lack it.

The point is that London is enough of a research hub in AI for it to be worth maintaining a significant research presence there and to even make researchers interested in relocating there.

DeepMind is obviously foriegn owned and controlled now, which does limit the UK's ability to exert control of and profit from it. That only makes weakening the institutions they do control, like ATI, more significant.

Re: Staff disquiet as Alan Turing Institute faces identity crisis

#64
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And as Douglas Adams stated in the problem with ruling axiom, is that under no circumstance should you allow someone who gets themselves in a position to rule, rule.

> under no circumstance should you allow someone who gets themselves in a position to rule, rule. Unfortunately the opposite is also true, as anyone who's served on a non-profit board with noncommital members knows.

[deleted]

Re: Staff disquiet as Alan Turing Institute faces identity crisis

#65

Reading between the lines - actually, just reading the lines - it sounds like another organisation that got infested with the kind of people who are apt to ruin organisations, and perhaps an attempt it being made to fumigate it, and they don't like that.

Without knowing any details, I'm guessing what's happened is the inevitable result that befalls organizations as predicted by Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy: Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy states that in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people: First, there will be those who are devoted to the goals of the organization. Examples are dedicated classroom teachers in an educational bure…

This law needs the addition of a third kind of person: one who is neither devoted to the goals of the organization nor the organization itself, but merely wishes to use the organization as a vehicle to push their own social and political beliefs (such as DEI).

Re: Staff disquiet as Alan Turing Institute faces identity crisis

#66
> In March last year more than 180 staff wrote a letter to leadership expressing “serious concerns” about the organisation’s approach to diversity after it appointed four men to senior roles.

If you change the sex and it becomes a sexist statement, it was always a sexist statement.

Re: Staff disquiet as Alan Turing Institute faces identity crisis

#67
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without knowing any details, I'm guessing what's happened is the inevitable result that befalls organizations as predicted by Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy: Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy states that in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people: First, there will be those who are devoted to the goals of the organization. Examples are dedicated classroom teachers in an educational bure…

And as Douglas Adams stated in the problem with ruling axiom, is that under no circumstance should you allow someone who gets themselves in a position to rule, rule.

They get in that position because nobody else wants to do it.

Re: Staff disquiet as Alan Turing Institute faces identity crisis

#68
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And as Douglas Adams stated in the problem with ruling axiom, is that under no circumstance should you allow someone who gets themselves in a position to rule, rule.

At least some greek states used to assign leadership in a lottery system designed in such a way partially to avoid the issues with this... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleroterion

Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition

I think a reasonable compromise would be to elect a top 2-3 and then choose randomly between them.

Re: Staff disquiet as Alan Turing Institute faces identity crisis

#69

Reading between the lines - actually, just reading the lines - it sounds like another organisation that got infested with the kind of people who are apt to ruin organisations, and perhaps an attempt it being made to fumigate it, and they don't like that.

AKA academics. A lot of academic researchers who couldn’t get jobs elsewhere ended up there. The org is fundamentally dysfunctional according to an insider I spoke to. They blamed leadership. They should have isolated it from academia - no hires from universities allowed, only hiring people who had previously worked in industry for the last few years.

You can get a lot of valuable work out of "unmanageable" academics if you figure out how to manage them. That's most of the secret of early Google's success. If we knew anything about the NSA it'd probably be how they work too.

Now this may be difficult in the UK because all jobs pay two quid a year, you have to live in a closet somewhere with a name like Pennyfarthing-upon-Longbottoms, and you can't get air conditioning without permission from the king.

Re: Staff disquiet as Alan Turing Institute faces identity crisis

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that iPhones are assembled in China, India and Vietnam. Would those countries issue press releases on "their leadership in iPhones"?

I'm sure representatives of those countries love to say so, especially when talking to third parties about their expertise in manufacturing: "Yes, here in Zhengzhou, CN we're leaders in electronics manufacturing - the iPhone is assembled here at Foxconn!" However, Apple (headquartered in the US) loves to issue press releases describing how their products are "Designed by Apple in California[, USA]" even though a lot…

Apple's manufacturers don't do any of the work on the software or design. They don't even manufacture the highest value-add components; those are mostly done in Taiwan and Korea.
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