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Model intelligence is no longer the constraint for automation

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Re: Model intelligence is no longer the constraint for automation

#61

Post by Greenpants »

neom wrote: post #2

Same same human problems. Regardless of their inherent intelligence...humans perform well only when given decent context and clear specifications/data. If you place a brilliant executive into a scenario without meaningful context.... an unfamiliar board meeting where they have no idea of the company’s history, prior strategic discussions, current issues, personel dynamics...expectations..etc etc, they will struggle j…

I really like this analogy! Many real-world tasks that we'd like to use AI for seem infinitely more complex than can be captured in a simple question/prompt. The main challenge going forward, in my opinion, is how to let LLMs ask the right questions – query for the right information – given a task to perform. Tool use with MCPs might be a good start, though it still feels hacky to have to define custom tools for LLMs first, as opposed to how humans effectively browse and skim lots of documentation to find actually relevant bits.

Re: Model intelligence is no longer the constraint for automation

#62

Post by boredhedgehog »

nradov wrote: post #29
fnordpiglet wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you buy the idea of a post scarcity society and assuming we can separate our long ingrained notion that spending your existence in toil to survive is a moral imperative and not working is deserving of punishment if not death, I personally look forward to a time we can get off the hamster wheel. Most buttons that get pushed by people are buttons not worth spending your existence pushing. This includes an awfu…

We will never have a post scarcity society. Automation can make certain foodstuffs and manufactured goods somewhat cheaper but the things that people really want will always be in short supply, for example real estate in geographically favorable areas.

When the celibate classes have been able to sublimate what is arguably the strongest of all wants for as long as they have, I doubt there is any desire that could not be redirected with similar techniques.

Re: Model intelligence is no longer the constraint for automation

#63

Post by frozenseven »

djrj477dhsnv wrote: post #34
fnordpiglet wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you buy the idea of a post scarcity society and assuming we can separate our long ingrained notion that spending your existence in toil to survive is a moral imperative and not working is deserving of punishment if not death, I personally look forward to a time we can get off the hamster wheel. Most buttons that get pushed by people are buttons not worth spending your existence pushing. This includes an awfu…

Do you really want to live in this "post scarcity" world? With no effort required to meet your needs and desires, what motivation will you have to do anything? Kaczynski's warnings seem more apt with every year that passes.

>Do you really want to live in this "post scarcity" world?

Yes.

>Kaczynski

You're citing a psychopathic terrorist who murdered 3 people and injured a further 23.

>what motivation will you have to do anything?

For one thing, freedom from self-appointed taskmasters who view Kaczynski as a source of inspiration.

Re: Model intelligence is no longer the constraint for automation

#64

Post by vkou »

djrj477dhsnv wrote: post #34
fnordpiglet wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you buy the idea of a post scarcity society and assuming we can separate our long ingrained notion that spending your existence in toil to survive is a moral imperative and not working is deserving of punishment if not death, I personally look forward to a time we can get off the hamster wheel. Most buttons that get pushed by people are buttons not worth spending your existence pushing. This includes an awfu…

Do you really want to live in this "post scarcity" world? With no effort required to meet your needs and desires, what motivation will you have to do anything? Kaczynski's warnings seem more apt with every year that passes.

Look, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Kaczynski didn't invent any of these ideas, or even develop them, instead of citing him, why not cite... Literally any other person with them whose mind wasn't blown out by LSD and a desire to commit random political murder.

You're doing your point a disservice by bringing in all of that baggage.

Re: Model intelligence is no longer the constraint for automation

#65

Post by LunaSea »

Davidzheng wrote: post #49
thorum wrote: post #7

This article is insightful, but I blinked when I saw the headline “Reducing the human bottleneck” used without any apparent irony. At some point we should probably take a step back and ask “Why do we want to solve this problem?” Is a world where AI systems are highly intelligent tools , but humans are needed to manage the high level complexity of the real world… supposed to be a disappointing outcome?

it actually doesn't matter what we want. Because eliminating it will in long run increase yield, economic forces will automate humans away by capitalistic forces.

If you don't have customers anymore, who are you selling your products to?

Re: Model intelligence is no longer the constraint for automation

#66

Post by saint_yossarian »

ankit219 wrote: post #56

The bottleneck for automation is verification. With human work, verification was fast(er) because you know where to look with certain assumptions that your upstream tasker would not have made trivial mistakes. For automation, AI needs to verify it's own work, review, and self correct to be able to automate any given work. Where this works, it will also change the abstraction layer compared to what it is today. The pr…

One thing that comes to mind: You still have to verify that the tests are exhaustive, and that the code isn't just gaming specific test scenarios.

I guess fuzzing and property-based testing could mitigate this to some extent.

Re: Model intelligence is no longer the constraint for automation

#67

Post by swivelmaster »

Davidzheng wrote: post #49
thorum wrote: post #7

This article is insightful, but I blinked when I saw the headline “Reducing the human bottleneck” used without any apparent irony. At some point we should probably take a step back and ask “Why do we want to solve this problem?” Is a world where AI systems are highly intelligent tools , but humans are needed to manage the high level complexity of the real world… supposed to be a disappointing outcome?

it actually doesn't matter what we want. Because eliminating it will in long run increase yield, economic forces will automate humans away by capitalistic forces.

We should stop considering it a given that capitalistic forces will do this and start considering how we build systems that optimize for the maximum amount of human good rather than the maximum amount of abstract economic good (which nowadays usually means an increase in wealth disparity).

Re: Model intelligence is no longer the constraint for automation

#68

Post by KoolKat23 »

mrlongroots wrote: post #25
neom wrote: post #2

Same same human problems. Regardless of their inherent intelligence...humans perform well only when given decent context and clear specifications/data. If you place a brilliant executive into a scenario without meaningful context.... an unfamiliar board meeting where they have no idea of the company’s history, prior strategic discussions, current issues, personel dynamics...expectations..etc etc, they will struggle j…

> they will struggle just as a model does surly A human will struggle, but they will recognize the things they need to know, and seek out people who may have the relevant information. If asked "how are things going" they will reliably be able to say "badly, I don't have anything I need".

That's just additional context.

Re: Model intelligence is no longer the constraint for automation

#69

Post by KoolKat23 »

Kuinox wrote: post #6

It's specific model that run for maths. GPT-5 and Gemini 2.5 still cannot compute an arbitrary length sum of whole number without a calculator. I have a proceduraly generated benchmark of basic operations, LLMs gets better at it with time, but they cant still solve basic maths or logic problems. BTW I'm open to selling it, my email is on my hn profile.

I can't see why that's necessary, when it can call a tool. Everyone uses a calculator. A logic problem, it can solve with reasoning, perhaps it's not the smartest but it can solve logic problems. All indications are that it will continue to become smarter.

Re: Model intelligence is no longer the constraint for automation

#70

Post by hgomersall »

nradov wrote: post #29
fnordpiglet wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you buy the idea of a post scarcity society and assuming we can separate our long ingrained notion that spending your existence in toil to survive is a moral imperative and not working is deserving of punishment if not death, I personally look forward to a time we can get off the hamster wheel. Most buttons that get pushed by people are buttons not worth spending your existence pushing. This includes an awfu…

We will never have a post scarcity society. Automation can make certain foodstuffs and manufactured goods somewhat cheaper but the things that people really want will always be in short supply, for example real estate in geographically favorable areas.

Indeed, scarcity will be artificially created if it's not naturally present. The human need to have something that others do not is strong.
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