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Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

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Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#61

Post by jinzo »

jvdvegt wrote: post #53
martin_a wrote: post #48

> Somewhat related, an easy early fix was to disable the car's microphone in the headliner light assembly. This (and maybe the things he does further on) would probably interfer with the eCall system that is mandatory for cars in Europe. The author seems to be in the US so that might be fine, but if you're in Europe, please don't do stuff like this.

I suppose such system is mandatory in a car when it's sold , such after sales changes would be fine as safety is not directly impacted. Source: my daily drive is a car without a modem on European roads, no problem.

All modifications to the car (in most, if not all EU countries) need to be homologated (eg. approved) by the authorities. So yes, removing eCall from a modern vehicle is (legally speaking) a lot different than driving one that came without it.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#62

Post by oakstendheim »

pabs3 wrote: post #30
zdw wrote: post #2

I'm fearing the day when my quite old ICE car dies and I end up in a situation where the best option is a newer car that is a computer on wheels running software that I know will stop getting updates very quickly. Of all the new cars ideas I've seen recently, only the Slate mini-truck seems to be taking a minimalist approach, with no fancy head unit or navigation system.

Another option is converting an ICE car to EV: https://openinverter.org/wiki/ZombieVerter_VCU https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43898280 https://youtube.com/@evbmw

I really wish these options would become more common, maybe even similar to the whole ecosystem around old American muscle cars. Pick and choose a (mostly) standardized drive train, standardized battery packs of different capacities and and your electronics to connect everything together.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#63

Post by f4c39012 »

01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote: post #39
shepherdjerred wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The techno fandom page is actually quite measured and reasonable. It's not a crazy idea to prevent dangerous behavior of those behind you.

If someone is tailgating me I just slow down gradually until they get mad and pass

To a degree this is sensible, if someone is tailgating you and you need to perform an emergency stop there's more likely to be a collision, so you need to increase the space in front of you for more gradual braking.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#64

Post by farmdve »

justforfunhere wrote: post #21

I know of some modern vehicles that will not start at all if you go about removing the telematics unit. I am not sure how long will it take before you will not be able to buy a vehicle at all without having to consent to being monitored remotely 24x7, but it will happen sooner than later. And this coming from a developing country. Pretty sure it is much worse in the developed world. I guess the market for second hand…

I am actually fascinated by car electronics. I had heavily modified the software on mine, but it was easier than modern stuff, no encryption of the code, and even the checksum code only triggered a DTC with no consequences.

The only module that was encrypted was the main module, but it if you knew the security PIN you could do what you wanted. It was determined by people that if you observed the jitter of the CAN line fast enough, you could leak the pin via a side channel attack.

But modern car electronics are encrypted, and some probably have security processors that might trigger some irreversible states if you tamper with them. Modern cars are basically as locked up as a PS5.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#65

Post by zeroflow »

justforfunhere wrote: post #21

I know of some modern vehicles that will not start at all if you go about removing the telematics unit. I am not sure how long will it take before you will not be able to buy a vehicle at all without having to consent to being monitored remotely 24x7, but it will happen sooner than later. And this coming from a developing country. Pretty sure it is much worse in the developed world. I guess the market for second hand…

It seems to be coming in multiple waves from multiple sides.

One of those is EUs ISA: First a display, now a warning and later actual interference with the driver.

And with the experiences with the current status are enough for me to be against those systems. The car doing an emergency stop because it saw a 30 sign an an adjacent road makes me not wanna purchase such a car. But there will be some time where no alternatives exist.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#66

Post by jinzo »

justforfunhere wrote: post #21

I know of some modern vehicles that will not start at all if you go about removing the telematics unit. I am not sure how long will it take before you will not be able to buy a vehicle at all without having to consent to being monitored remotely 24x7, but it will happen sooner than later. And this coming from a developing country. Pretty sure it is much worse in the developed world. I guess the market for second hand…

I'm sure you are overestimating what an average car buyer cares about when buying the car. From the world where people pay for listening devices to put into their homes, small tracking devices they can stick into everything and so forth. Maybe if it becomes 'fashionable' to worry about privacy, and even then it'll be because it is popular not because majority will become privacy conscious. Unfortunately.

I think stronger regulations, protections and security is the way forward. Not going against the flow, as that is unfortunately a lost battle.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#67

Post by 71bw »

01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote: post #39
shepherdjerred wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The techno fandom page is actually quite measured and reasonable. It's not a crazy idea to prevent dangerous behavior of those behind you.

If someone is tailgating me I just slow down gradually until they get mad and pass

[flagged]

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#68

Post by wickedsight »

01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote: post #39
shepherdjerred wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The techno fandom page is actually quite measured and reasonable. It's not a crazy idea to prevent dangerous behavior of those behind you.

If someone is tailgating me I just slow down gradually until they get mad and pass

Same. I start driving at a speed that is safe for the distance they're keeping (in stead of what should be the other way around). That is usually quite effective.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#69

Post by poink »

mook wrote: post #59
dangus wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not the direction that the software is going in. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/05/carplay-ultra-the-nex...

CarPlay Ultra sounds like it's extending it further? That is, it's still essentially VNC† with some data fed from the car and rendered by the phone, but now with multi-monitor support. † it's more complicated than that, but still a dumb framebuffer.

This is what I hoped for but based on the Ultra implementation in the Astons is not at all what we’re getting

It seems to require pretty deep integration with the automaker (Aston provides a lot of custom visuals), and based on the available third party reviews it doesn’t work as well as you’d suspect for a flagship integration

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#70

Post by waste_monk »

oakstendheim wrote: post #62
pabs3 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another option is converting an ICE car to EV: https://openinverter.org/wiki/ZombieVerter_VCU https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43898280 https://youtube.com/@evbmw

I really wish these options would become more common, maybe even similar to the whole ecosystem around old American muscle cars. Pick and choose a (mostly) standardized drive train, standardized battery packs of different capacities and and your electronics to connect everything together.

I thought the issue is more the batteries and weight distribution. That is, EVs usually have the batteries along the length of the chassis to spread the load out, which is not practical to retrofit onto an ICE car.

And if you fill the engine bay on an ICE car with battery packs during the conversion, the weight distribution will be extremely uneven and cause trouble with the suspension and related components, poor handling, etc.

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