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Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

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Re: Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

#61

Post by frakt0x90 »

buerkle wrote: post #8
docdeek wrote: post #6

It is strange that showing ID to vote is controversial in the US and that providing basic ID to citizens for free to allow them to vote is a problem that seems difficult to solve (or want to solve). My anecdote: I am an EU citizen living in another EU country. As such, I am permitted to vote in local and European elections. When I moved to my current village I registered with the local town hall online. I sent a scan…

Showing ID to vote wouldn't be controversial in the US if states made it easy to obtain a valid ID for the purpose. But states routinely use it as a backdoor mechanism to prevent people from voting.

There's an excellent documentary by Channel 5 (formerly All Gas No Brakes) where he tries to work with a group of homeless people in Las Vegas to get them papers and the process is extremely difficult. Like bordering on impossible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRGrKJofDaw

Re: Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

#62

Post by fzeroracer »

jimbo808 wrote: post #27
tastyface wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If you can't even prove you're an American by providing basic identification, you shouldn't be allowed vote. Democracy requires a system of voting that is trustworthy. Allowing people to vote based on who they say they are is not conducive to a trustworthy election.

The thing is, if you think about this for even two seconds you realize how hard it is to actually commit voting fraud. That's why most of the known fraud occurs not by individuals but by intermediaries 'losing' votes.

If I say I'm John Doe at James Lane then you can trivially verify this in multiple ways. You can check the prior voting records, you can check the death records, you can check property information. If another person comes by and says they're John Doe at James Lane then you can send mail to said address asking them to verify their identity / vote.

Re: Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

#63

Post by gruez »

samdoesnothing wrote: post #20

[flagged]

That's actually no longer true, due to changes in voting demographics for both parties:

>The best evidence seems to be that the impact of restrictive laws is minimal. An analysis published in the Quarterly Journal of Economics of 1.6bn voting records from every state in America found that strict voter ID rules, on average, neither significantly suppressed votes nor prevented fraud. Nor do ID laws hurt Democrats any longer, according to research by Jeffrey Harden and Alejandra Campos. Whereas in 2010 voter ID laws reduced Democratic vote share by 3%, by 2020 they increased it slightly. Because of the changes in party voting coalitions, the overall effect of the next phase of even tighter voting rules could now “easily be a wash” when it comes to benefiting one party or the other, says Nicholas Stephanopoulos, who studies elections at Harvard University.

https://archive.is/iPSiY

Re: Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

#65

Post by celeritascelery »

nerdponx wrote: post #48
docdeek wrote: post #6

It is strange that showing ID to vote is controversial in the US and that providing basic ID to citizens for free to allow them to vote is a problem that seems difficult to solve (or want to solve). My anecdote: I am an EU citizen living in another EU country. As such, I am permitted to vote in local and European elections. When I moved to my current village I registered with the local town hall online. I sent a scan…

The kind of actual voter fraud that ID requirements would prevent is extremely rare. There are better ways to rig elections than hiring thousands of people to physically show up at different polling centers and vote several times under different names. Even disregarding the fact that voter ID laws are (and historically have been) widely abused to disenfranchise specific groups in the USA, what do you actually gain by…

> what do you actually gain by requiring ID?

Preventing non-citizens from voting. Some counties in the US have almost half of the population who are non-citizens. It's great that we have so many people wanting to come to the states, but they can't vote until they become citizens. This is not a controversial issue anywhere except in the US.

Re: Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

#66

Post by gruez »

frakt0x90 wrote: post #61
buerkle wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Showing ID to vote wouldn't be controversial in the US if states made it easy to obtain a valid ID for the purpose. But states routinely use it as a backdoor mechanism to prevent people from voting.

There's an excellent documentary by Channel 5 (formerly All Gas No Brakes) where he tries to work with a group of homeless people in Las Vegas to get them papers and the process is extremely difficult. Like bordering on impossible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRGrKJofDaw

>where he tries to work with a group of homeless people in Las Vegas to get them papers and the process is extremely difficult. Like bordering on impossible.

That seems like the worst case scenario though? I don't think homeless people should be disenfranchised, but at the same time it's unfair to pretend the typical experience of getting a voter id resembles whatever the TV show is depicting either.

Re: Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

#67

Post by Hikikomori »

galleywest200 wrote: post #24
tastyface wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump is already making noises in the direction of arresting Obama for... election interference, or something.

Good thing John Roberts gave presidents complete immunity for official acts then. Wonder how that will shake out.

Courts still decide on what counts as official acts.

Re: Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

#68

Post by samdoesnothing »

hypeatei wrote: post #45
samdoesnothing wrote: post #20

[flagged]

How did MAGA win in 2024 if Dems had illegals voting for them? I see right wingers regularly push the narrative that they're the underdog fighting against people rigging the election and that evil Dems are stealing it from them... yet they still go out and vote? Please enlighten us with elections where illegals voted and changed the outcome.

[flagged]

Re: Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

#69

Post by jimbo808 »

neaden wrote: post #50
jimbo808 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't even prove you're an American by providing basic identification, you shouldn't be allowed vote. Democracy requires a system of voting that is trustworthy. Allowing people to vote based on who they say they are is not conducive to a trustworthy election.

But it works fine. There have been extensive efforts to find people voting illegally and it turns up a small handful across the entire country, and many of those are things like returning a recently dead persons mail in ballot that voter ID wouldn't even help with. The fact is that all the evidence says an incredibly small number of people vote who are not legally eligible to do so, and only a small proportion of tho…

It doesn't work if a large portion of the country believes that this issue is causing voter fraud. It doesn't have to be really happening, it just has to be possible and perceived to be happening. We can easily fix that.

Re: Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

#70

Post by jimbo808 »

fzeroracer wrote: post #62
jimbo808 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't even prove you're an American by providing basic identification, you shouldn't be allowed vote. Democracy requires a system of voting that is trustworthy. Allowing people to vote based on who they say they are is not conducive to a trustworthy election.

The thing is, if you think about this for even two seconds you realize how hard it is to actually commit voting fraud. That's why most of the known fraud occurs not by individuals but by intermediaries 'losing' votes. If I say I'm John Doe at James Lane then you can trivially verify this in multiple ways. You can check the prior voting records, you can check the death records, you can check property information. If a…

It doesn't matter if you commit voting fraud. It matters that people are aware of the fact that voter identity is not verified. It undermines peoples' trust in the election process, and in democracy overall.
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