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Germany's identity crisis: The trains no longer run on time

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Re: Germany's identity crisis: The trains no longer run on time

#61

Post by josephcsible »

c-linkage wrote: post #26
WalterBright wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I worked at Boeing, we'd have a meeting now and then in a meeting room. The engineers showed up on time. The lead engineers showed up 10m late. The supervisor showed up 30m late. Anyone higher up, even later. This was never discussed, but the pattern was the same every meeting. I seriously disliked that nonsense.

That is why I do not like the American traffic signaling system. When the light turns red cross traffic has a two to three second delay. My feeling is that if people knew the cross traffic would go immediately when the light turned red they would certainly stop. But right now they know there's a buffer so they just run the red light.

Wouldn't you need the delay even if everyone drove perfectly? Isn't the point of it to give time for cars that have already entered the intersection to exit it, since the light turning red just means you're no longer allowed to enter?

Re: Germany's identity crisis: The trains no longer run on time

#62

Post by josephcsible »

WalterBright wrote: post #47
c-linkage wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is why I do not like the American traffic signaling system. When the light turns red cross traffic has a two to three second delay. My feeling is that if people knew the cross traffic would go immediately when the light turned red they would certainly stop. But right now they know there's a buffer so they just run the red light.

Around here the power goes out to the lights now and then. Interestingly, the traffic flows smoother and faster without the lights! Even the arterials! It's amazing! Drivers simply politely cooperate with each other. (The same thing happens when a traffic cop handles the intersection.) I'm always assured that the city traffic light engineers know what they're doing and design the lights for maximum flow. They do no s…

> Interestingly, the traffic flows smoother and faster without the lights!

I agree with that at off-peak times, but when lights malfunction at peak times, that seems to make traffic a lot worse.

Re: Germany's identity crisis: The trains no longer run on time

#63

Post by cadamsdotcom »

> “The reliability of the railway must be significantly improved,” Patrick Schnieder, Germany’s new transportation minister said .. calling the punctuality numbers “unsatisfactory.” Passengers often make the same point — but using expletives.

Thanks for the chuckle!

Re: Germany's identity crisis: The trains no longer run on time

#64

Post by WalterBright »

exmadscientist wrote: post #56
WalterBright wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think I'd get tarred and feathered if I did that at my company. The problem with it is the boss. Too many bosses show their dominance by how much they can force underlings to wait for them. The boss is quite capable of starting the meetings on time, and the rest will work out. I do the same thing with chronically late people. I simply don't wait for them. The problem resolves itself.

I've also done this. Back when I used to teach, all I had to do to get students to be on time was to start on time myself, and close the classroom door. (I think they locked automatically, so students had to knock to be let in, but that wasn't the point. I never gave them any grief, just let them in with as small an interruption as I could manage.) I have never had a more punctual group of people that large. It works…

One thing about human nature that I rarely see mentioned is people tend to behave as you expect them to.

If you expect them to be honest, they'll be honest.

If you expect them to be thieves, they'll be thieves.

If you expect them to be on time, they'll be on time.

And so on.

(Of course there are exceptions.)

Re: Germany's identity crisis: The trains no longer run on time

#65

Post by WalterBright »

josephcsible wrote: post #61
c-linkage wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is why I do not like the American traffic signaling system. When the light turns red cross traffic has a two to three second delay. My feeling is that if people knew the cross traffic would go immediately when the light turned red they would certainly stop. But right now they know there's a buffer so they just run the red light.

Wouldn't you need the delay even if everyone drove perfectly? Isn't the point of it to give time for cars that have already entered the intersection to exit it, since the light turning red just means you're no longer allowed to enter?

Generally, cross drivers pay attention to other cars in the intersection and don't just drive into them.

Re: Germany's identity crisis: The trains no longer run on time

#66

Post by WalterBright »

mzhaase wrote: post #40
WalterBright wrote: post #19

When I toured Germany in the 1980s with a train pass, there were clocks all over the train stations. If the train was scheduled to start at 11:07, when the big hand clicked to 7, the train started to move. It was wonderful. BTW, the D community is all over the world. We schedule a zoom meeting each month. When we began the meetings, and the meeting started at, say, 8, the meeting organizer would say "we need to wait…

Fun fact, all train clocks in Germany synchronize ever minute. That's why the second hand freezes every minute: its actually set to be a bit too fast, and then gets held at the top until the radio signal comes to let it continue. https://youtu.be/Er5VIgJqvtg

German engineering!

Re: Germany's identity crisis: The trains no longer run on time

#67

Post by 1241231241 »

psunavy03 wrote: post #35
WalterBright wrote: post #19

When I toured Germany in the 1980s with a train pass, there were clocks all over the train stations. If the train was scheduled to start at 11:07, when the big hand clicked to 7, the train started to move. It was wonderful. BTW, the D community is all over the world. We schedule a zoom meeting each month. When we began the meetings, and the meeting started at, say, 8, the meeting organizer would say "we need to wait…

This was the biggest culture shock for me coming from military aviation to software. In the former, a brief starts exactly on time, down to the second. "5-4-3-2-1-hack. Time is 0800." I think I'd get tarred and feathered if I did that at my company.

This is being "fashionably" late, you assert social status by being late.

Re: Germany's identity crisis: The trains no longer run on time

#68

Post by karim79 »

I found this article a couple of hours ago, it's fun to see it here as a thread.

I live in Germany and I sent the article to my former manager. His response, verbatim, was this:

"This pisses me off so deeply".

I went on to muse about the "academic quarter hour" and that now "six minutes is now German standard lateness".

All in good faith, and hell of a lot of fun.

Re: Germany's identity crisis: The trains no longer run on time

#69

Post by WalterBright »

1241231241 wrote: post #67
psunavy03 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was the biggest culture shock for me coming from military aviation to software. In the former, a brief starts exactly on time, down to the second. "5-4-3-2-1-hack. Time is 0800." I think I'd get tarred and feathered if I did that at my company.

This is being "fashionably" late, you assert social status by being late.

If I'm going to be late for a social occasion, I'll text the host.
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