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At 17, Hannah Cairo solved a major math mystery

quantamagazine.org

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Re: At 17, Hannah Cairo solved a major math mystery

#61

Post by psyklic »

skeptrune wrote: post #46
jonhohle wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s one of the biggest problems? Not pushing people into higher educational programs with little societal or economic value but huge loads of debt?

I think research and higher education does have value for the most part. It's undergrad that's really worthless and something people only do for the experience.

Undergrads who care about learning and research will take the most challenging classes, do research with professors, and surround themselves with other strong students who will push them.

Even at top universities, very very few freshmen are capable of doing high-quality research immediately. They'd be better served learning the foundations inside and out with a cohort of similarly strong students to challenge them.

Re: At 17, Hannah Cairo solved a major math mystery

#63

Post by xp84 »

JAlexoid wrote: post #45
1024core wrote: post #18

> Only the University of Maryland and Johns Hopkins University were willing to welcome her straight into a doctoral program. She’ll start at Maryland in the fall. When she finishes, it will be her first degree. Jeez... what a damning indictment of today's Universities. She could just use her publication as a dissertation and be done with it!

This is ignoring the value of the whole education process, that you go through the years at a university. I disagree that she should skip the general education.

Thinking about my GE requirements at undergrad, I think it would be a waste of this girl's time to be forced to learn about and write about random subjects that don't interest her. She has but one lifetime, and can contribute much to her field.

The subjects such as English composition, she should be allowed to test out of if she is already a good writer.

Re: At 17, Hannah Cairo solved a major math mystery

#64

Post by skeptrune »

psyklic wrote: post #61
skeptrune wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think research and higher education does have value for the most part. It's undergrad that's really worthless and something people only do for the experience.

Undergrads who care about learning and research will take the most challenging classes, do research with professors, and surround themselves with other strong students who will push them. Even at top universities, very very few freshmen are capable of doing high-quality research immediately. They'd be better served learning the foundations inside and out with a cohort of similarly strong students to challenge them.

If you do research during your 4 year undergrad. You shouldn't have been undergrad. It's really that simple.

Re: At 17, Hannah Cairo solved a major math mystery

#65

Post by franga2000 »

jonhohle wrote: post #34
skeptrune wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the biggest flaw with higher education today is that we're pushing people into doing undergraduate degrees who are already well beyond coming out of self learning from high school or other experiences.

That’s one of the biggest problems? Not pushing people into higher educational programs with little societal or economic value but huge loads of debt?

The debt part is just a US thing, but the rest of us still have the other problems.

Re: At 17, Hannah Cairo solved a major math mystery

#68

Post by psyklic »

skeptrune wrote: post #64
psyklic wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Undergrads who care about learning and research will take the most challenging classes, do research with professors, and surround themselves with other strong students who will push them. Even at top universities, very very few freshmen are capable of doing high-quality research immediately. They'd be better served learning the foundations inside and out with a cohort of similarly strong students to challenge them.

If you do research during your 4 year undergrad. You shouldn't have been undergrad. It's really that simple.

I'm not sure that's a simple argument and can't imagine many would agree.

Undergrads who do research generally aren't very good at research yet. A major reason is they either lack or don't fully understand the pre-reqs, which they progressively and cumulatively learn during undergrad. A student can be incredibly smart, but acquiring a strong rigorous math background will still take years.

Re: At 17, Hannah Cairo solved a major math mystery

#69

Post by skeptrune »

psyklic wrote: post #68
skeptrune wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you do research during your 4 year undergrad. You shouldn't have been undergrad. It's really that simple.

I'm not sure that's a simple argument and can't imagine many would agree. Undergrads who do research generally aren't very good at research yet. A major reason is they either lack or don't fully understand the pre-reqs, which they progressively and cumulatively learn during undergrad. A student can be incredibly smart, but acquiring a strong rigorous math background will still take years.

Working on that skill and ability is the entire point of postgrad. If those are the skills you're working on then you should be in a postgrad program.

Re: At 17, Hannah Cairo solved a major math mystery

#70

Post by psyklic »

skeptrune wrote: post #69
psyklic wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that's a simple argument and can't imagine many would agree. Undergrads who do research generally aren't very good at research yet. A major reason is they either lack or don't fully understand the pre-reqs, which they progressively and cumulatively learn during undergrad. A student can be incredibly smart, but acquiring a strong rigorous math background will still take years.

Working on that skill and ability is the entire point of postgrad. If those are the skills you're working on then you should be in a postgrad program.

If you don't know the foundations well, you don't belong in a postgrad program. That's the reality and how it currently works. Undergrad teaches you those foundations.

Anyone can try doing research, even undergrads who half-know the foundations. However, trying research doesn't mean you have the background to do great research or to succeed in a postgrad program.

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