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Britain's spies-for-hire are running wild

politico.eu

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Re: Britain's spies-for-hire are running wild

#61

Post by hnfong »

throwawayffffas wrote: post #59
hnfong wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In these cases, if you speak too much you get killed. I'll post one such case to corroborate the article, since it was big news in my community: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Hong_Kong_trade_office_sp... Allegedly involved are Hong Kong government, multiple private security and private investigators from the UK with ex-military/law enforcement background, and a mysterious death after the whole scandal was expose…

While I agree that the author clearly has to keep the details private from the press for their own safety, the whole article frames the alleged victims as powerless, but in truth they are not. The behaviors described are mostly criminal, they have legal recourse, it's not like civil cases where they would be buried from the other sides legal team. And speaking of the other side they are private companies employing ex…

Have you even read my link?

> don't have the immense backing of a state

They had backing of a foreign state power, in this case Hong Kong (and by implication China)

> it would only take a couple of cases to stick for real prison time for these folks

The guy just died a mysterious death once the thing was exposed. He must have wished for prison time.

Re: Britain's spies-for-hire are running wild

#62

Post by quinndexter »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #44
tc313 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is a place where you typically post links to sources that support your claim. We could all Google it (or ChatGPT it), but we may not come out with the same results. Why not post your sources so that we can discuss a common set of evidence?

HN is also a place that is intended to be a place that promotes intellectual curiosity rather than argument. When the evidence is this extensive and easily accessible, the decision to argue about it reflects intransigence and an unwillingness to be curious. I genuinely don’t care about being right on the Internet or HN karma, I would be genuinely happy if one reader/participant in this argument came out of it thinkin…

The good folks here have absolutely demonstrated intellectual curiosity - that's what all the requests for prompt details and links are. Your refusal to simply provide them, especially after opening with what boils down to "ChatGPT told me...", and choice to get all smug and self-righteous when pressed, does not imply that you actually have the best handle on HN culture.

Re: Britain's spies-for-hire are running wild

#63

Post by throwawayffffas »

hnfong wrote: post #61
throwawayffffas wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that the author clearly has to keep the details private from the press for their own safety, the whole article frames the alleged victims as powerless, but in truth they are not. The behaviors described are mostly criminal, they have legal recourse, it's not like civil cases where they would be buried from the other sides legal team. And speaking of the other side they are private companies employing ex…

Have you even read my link? > don't have the immense backing of a state They had backing of a foreign state power, in this case Hong Kong (and by implication China) > it would only take a couple of cases to stick for real prison time for these folks The guy just died a mysterious death once the thing was exposed. He must have wished for prison time.

I did, I just don't think the particulars really much what the politico article discusses.

The private security companies in the case in your link are in my opinion incidental.

In your link a state actor recruited a bunch of people to do it's dirty work. Typical state sponsored intelligence stuff. The security companies were really a former marine and a couple of former Hong Kong cops. They could have been hired ad hoc.

In the politico article it discusses shops run from groups of former intelligence agencies (MI5 and MI6 presumably) running intelligence operations for companies.

It's an entire different kind of thing in my opinion.

Sure if a van rolls up across your home with a bunch of dudes in it you can't know which case you are dealing with, but either way calling the cops is the right way to go.

Re: Britain's spies-for-hire are running wild

#64

Post by matthewdgreen »

quinndexter wrote: post #62
matthewdgreen wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is also a place that is intended to be a place that promotes intellectual curiosity rather than argument. When the evidence is this extensive and easily accessible, the decision to argue about it reflects intransigence and an unwillingness to be curious. I genuinely don’t care about being right on the Internet or HN karma, I would be genuinely happy if one reader/participant in this argument came out of it thinkin…

The good folks here have absolutely demonstrated intellectual curiosity - that's what all the requests for prompt details and links are. Your refusal to simply provide them, especially after opening with what boils down to "ChatGPT told me...", and choice to get all smug and self-righteous when pressed, does not imply that you actually have the best handle on HN culture.

When you write hundreds of words to avoid typing twelve or so into a search engine, you’re not pursuing intellectual curiosity. I’m happy to die on this hill because it’s so completely absurd, and because I’m curious about what pathology is causing people even to argue about this.

Re: Britain's spies-for-hire are running wild

#65

Post by hnfong »

throwawayffffas wrote: post #63
hnfong wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you even read my link? > don't have the immense backing of a state They had backing of a foreign state power, in this case Hong Kong (and by implication China) > it would only take a couple of cases to stick for real prison time for these folks The guy just died a mysterious death once the thing was exposed. He must have wished for prison time.

I did, I just don't think the particulars really much what the politico article discusses. The private security companies in the case in your link are in my opinion incidental. In your link a state actor recruited a bunch of people to do it's dirty work. Typical state sponsored intelligence stuff. The security companies were really a former marine and a couple of former Hong Kong cops. They could have been hired ad h…

From TFA:

"In the last year, government ministers and intelligence agencies have warned that foreign states are using the industry to “carry out their dirty work” in the U.K. — sometimes through the surveillance and harassment of dissidents that have fled to Britain as a safe haven."

I guess the article discusses other things too, but even if your argument makes sense here, it doesn't negate the fact that once powerful foreign entities are involved, ones that have enough resources and motivation to hire ex-spies to do dirty work, calling the police can lead to disastrous outcomes.

I guess you're lucky in a sense since apparently you haven't experienced the situations where you know there are times where the normal law enforcement / emergency services process won't work.

Re: Britain's spies-for-hire are running wild

#66

Post by RCitronsBroker »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #51

These articles never talk about the version of "spies for hire" which exists for tech workers, which is "expert networks": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expert_network Get paid 300-2000$+ each for 1 hr calls? I'd be shocked if expert networks weren't being used for subterfuge.

Great point
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