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Why MIT switched from Scheme to Python (2009)
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Re: Why MIT switched from Scheme to Python (2009)
#62Isn't this just part of the broader trend of CS departments switching away from teaching computer science to teaching computer engineering, which in turn is part of the more general trend of colleges becoming more vocational? LISP dialects like Scheme are excellent for teaching pure computer science because they are the closest thing to executing lambda calculus expressions. Whereas Python is excellent for teaching a…
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Isn't this just part of the broader trend of CS departments switching away from teaching computer science to teaching computer engineering
Computer engineering is similar as hard as computer science (don't start the discussion which one is harder ;-) ). What CS departments instead switch to is teaching some shallow, applied programming knowledge.
Re: Why MIT switched from Scheme to Python (2009)
#63Re: Why MIT switched from Scheme to Python (2009)
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
How many people do you know who are monolingual?
Human languages and programming languages are not comparable. You will need a lot more effort to become fluent in a second human language than in second programming language. Even if the human language is Esperanto (designed to be really easy for speakers of European languages), and the programming language is C++ (perhaps the most inconsistencies and foot guns) the programming language will need a lot less effort to…
Multiple computer languages are probably more like learning vocabulary in different domains of life and learning to write for different media.
Re: Why MIT switched from Scheme to Python (2009)
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
How many people do you know who are monolingual?
Human languages and programming languages are not comparable. You will need a lot more effort to become fluent in a second human language than in second programming language. Even if the human language is Esperanto (designed to be really easy for speakers of European languages), and the programming language is C++ (perhaps the most inconsistencies and foot guns) the programming language will need a lot less effort to…
They're not directly comparable because humans have an inbuilt ability to learn human languages.
The vast majority of people on the planet know more than one human language and know zero computer languages. It's literally the opposite of what you're claiming.
Re: Why MIT switched from Scheme to Python (2009)
#66Isn't this just part of the broader trend of CS departments switching away from teaching computer science to teaching computer engineering, which in turn is part of the more general trend of colleges becoming more vocational? LISP dialects like Scheme are excellent for teaching pure computer science because they are the closest thing to executing lambda calculus expressions. Whereas Python is excellent for teaching a…
Yes. One of the biggest complaints that computer science departments used to get from students is that they weren't learning any languages that employers are using.
I always found scheme to be a clean slate where no one’s high school experience benefited them in the first year.
My program did Java for the second course, which was very popular in industry and I loathed it.
I do think Python is not so bad to standardize on because it’s stood the test of time and is one of the most popular ways to write code for many disciplines and has applications outside of computer science so it helps everyone that takes the cs requirement even if they aren’t a cs major.
What im saying is Python can even serve as a better version of spreadsheets for folks that aren’t cs.
Re: Why MIT switched from Scheme to Python (2009)
#67Isn't this just part of the broader trend of CS departments switching away from teaching computer science to teaching computer engineering, which in turn is part of the more general trend of colleges becoming more vocational? LISP dialects like Scheme are excellent for teaching pure computer science because they are the closest thing to executing lambda calculus expressions. Whereas Python is excellent for teaching a…
Yes. One of the biggest complaints that computer science departments used to get from students is that they weren't learning any languages that employers are using.
I think someone who learns computer science well from the theoretical side can pick up a new language quickly. After all, if it's turing complete, it's turing complete, they're all the same at that level.
Problems creep in when the person doesn't learn CS well, chooses an approach that is deeply reliant on overly complex/opaque libraries without good documentation, or the like.
Re: Why MIT switched from Scheme to Python (2009)
#68This is just an introductory language and if you’re in a CS program, you’ll definitely move on to more advanced ones. It actually makes sense to switch to Python since it’s far more ubiquitous and accessible than Scheme. Scheme is not widely used in commercial software development, but still enjoys a presence in academia. Python has strong presence in both. On the other hand, Pascal was my “introductory” programming…
But this is the problem. Our premier academic institutions shouldn’t merely exist as job training programs for big tech.
If anything, tech is still one of the better off fields in the university.
Look at history or literature programs for where this is heading. I’d imagine that most literature majors don’t even read at all these days. As recent as 50 years ago, the requirement involved hundreds of pages of reading per week, over a sustained 4 year period.
Honestly, just close down the university at this point, if all it wants to do is print out degree certificates for social signaling in the job market.
Re: Why MIT switched from Scheme to Python (2009)
#69This is just an introductory language and if you’re in a CS program, you’ll definitely move on to more advanced ones. It actually makes sense to switch to Python since it’s far more ubiquitous and accessible than Scheme. Scheme is not widely used in commercial software development, but still enjoys a presence in academia. Python has strong presence in both. On the other hand, Pascal was my “introductory” programming…
I learned so much about computer science by doing my intro course in Scheme. Concepts that have helped me throughout my career. Concepts that I feel just cannot be expressed or understood nearly as well with Python (and I love Python, almost all my professional and personal coding is in Python).
Re: Why MIT switched from Scheme to Python (2009)
#70This is just an introductory language and if you’re in a CS program, you’ll definitely move on to more advanced ones. It actually makes sense to switch to Python since it’s far more ubiquitous and accessible than Scheme. Scheme is not widely used in commercial software development, but still enjoys a presence in academia. Python has strong presence in both. On the other hand, Pascal was my “introductory” programming…
But this is the problem. Our premier academic institutions shouldn’t merely exist as job training programs for big tech. If anything, tech is still one of the better off fields in the university. Look at history or literature programs for where this is heading. I’d imagine that most literature majors don’t even read at all these days. As recent as 50 years ago, the requirement involved hundreds of pages of reading pe…
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