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Data on How America Sold Out Its Computer Science Graduates

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Re: Data on How America Sold Out Its Computer Science Graduates

#61

Post by pcthrowaway »

potato3732842 wrote: post #44
PeterStuer wrote: post #38

"We need to stop pretending that flooding the labor market with foreign workers is somehow beneficial to American students." I do not think anyone is making that point. Clearly a gated and scarce employee pool is always in the advantage of the employee. You can agree or not, but the point is expanded availability of highly skilled labor from CS Graduates benefits the US companies hiring them, not just by removing som…

> do not think anyone is making that point. There are a whole lot of weasels who are adding a bunch of filler words and alternate phrasing to stuff that amounts to something akin to that point or some point built around that core. >From a geo political perspective, would you rather have these people working to build up US industry, If it tears the nation apart what does it matter? >Lastly, those non-US graduates pay…

> If it tears the nation apart what does it matter?

At this point, software job opportunities are pretty low on the list of things tearing the nation apart.

Re: Data on How America Sold Out Its Computer Science Graduates

#62

Post by pcthrowaway »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #29
rayiner wrote: post #3

I’ve been hearing about this for decades. It keeps happening because republicans need their cheap labor and democrats need foreign voters. The people in power have tremendous political incentives to keep the pipeline flowing.

[flagged]

I haven't seen any criticism of deportations from Democrats because "who's gonna mow my lawn". I'm sure it happens, but I haven't seen it.

I've seen an endless feed of Democrats and people further left concerned about the human rights abuses happening right now with ICE and deportations

Bold of you to assume any of these people have a lawn to mow.

Re: Data on How America Sold Out Its Computer Science Graduates

#63

Post by franktankbank »

ylow wrote: post #18

This is using statistics to tell a preconceived story. Underlying this a notion that foreign workers are simply “imported” like they are dug out of the ground or something. How do these STEM OPT people find jobs? Guess what. They interview like everyone else does. 1: Every big tech interview I have been in the visa status is not even a question in the interview process. There is just a simple gate that “can you legal…

Foreign workers are much more likely to agree to do illegal things, including kickback schemes. Unwind this shit and start over. Indian contracting companies big and small have fucked it all up.

Re: Data on How America Sold Out Its Computer Science Graduates

#64

Post by franktankbank »

intermerda wrote: post #54
newswasboring wrote: post #39

> That's equal to 82% of our graduating class who are guaranteed jobs even before any Americans walk across the stage for their diploma. This is such a weird phrasing. These people are not "guaranteed" jobs. They get a job and then apply for a visa which is granted because they have offer letters. In fact the whole article reads like American government is somehow giving these people jobs rather than allowing them to…

Top comment on that article > This is just so completely outrageous. > And Trump just approved another wave of Indians on H1B's for next year. They would rather be poor and underdeveloped than have immigrants start more than half of billion dollar+ startups. “If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down…

> half of billion dollar+ startups.

Billion dollar raises, not billion dollar profitable business. What exactly are these startups doing besides mega grifting and creating more useless layers of tech?

Re: Data on How America Sold Out Its Computer Science Graduates

#65

Post by rayiner »

delusional wrote: post #32
rayiner wrote: post #3

I’ve been hearing about this for decades. It keeps happening because republicans need their cheap labor and democrats need foreign voters. The people in power have tremendous political incentives to keep the pipeline flowing.

> democrats need foreign voters Is there any proof for this statement? Republicans want cheap labor, they'll tell you that themselves, but I don't believe the Democrats would ever say that they believe in labor immigration to "get more voters". That just sounds like a ludicrous conspiracy.

Have you forgotten the last 15 years of “demographics is destiny” and “coalition of the ascendant” rhetoric? The rising identity politics? All together with a strong shift in pro-immigration policy from the party since 2008? (In 2004, democrats and republicans had roughly similar views on immigration: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-democrats-became-st....)

Re: Data on How America Sold Out Its Computer Science Graduates

#66

Post by happytoexplain »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #61
potato3732842 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> do not think anyone is making that point. There are a whole lot of weasels who are adding a bunch of filler words and alternate phrasing to stuff that amounts to something akin to that point or some point built around that core. >From a geo political perspective, would you rather have these people working to build up US industry, If it tears the nation apart what does it matter? >Lastly, those non-US graduates pay…

> If it tears the nation apart what does it matter? At this point, software job opportunities are pretty low on the list of things tearing the nation apart.

This is exactly the opposite of reality. It's always been the economy. It's always been jobs. Everything else, no matter how important and worthy in other ways, is ultimately subservient in the long run, in the context of national mood/wellbeing/politics. Everything else can be traced to some degree back to jobs. Jobs are what primarily drives every single person's life experience and therefore, directly or indirectly, everything else.

Re: Data on How America Sold Out Its Computer Science Graduates

#67

Post by tayo42 »

DaSHacka wrote: post #43
tayo42 wrote: post #8

>The percentage of computer science graduates ... For those who specialized in computer programming, Isn't computer programing all of computer science. This seems like a weird distinction to make? The job market just seems to suck, if it didnt i dont think things like this would come up. I dont think immigration is the reason for the job market sucking. theres no jobs to apply to, theres no jobs to take from american…

> I dont think immigration is the reason for the job market sucking. theres no jobs to apply to, theres no jobs to take from americans in the first place Are you sure about that? Microsoft recently laid off 9,000 American workers while applying for 14,000 H1B visa workers [0]. They are transparently offshoring jobs from Americans to foreign workers. [0] https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/microsoft-applied-to...

That article says that isn't rellly accurate for Microsoft.

But where are the job listings that h1b applicants are using. It seems like job availability is just down overall

Re: Data on How America Sold Out Its Computer Science Graduates

#69

Post by azinman2 »

corimaith wrote: post #34
azinman2 wrote: post #15

“eliminate the STEM OPT extension” I won’t get into h1b which gets plenty of air time, but this is the first time I’ve ever heard anyone wanting to eliminate OPT. This is beyond idiotic. Foreigners come and get educated in the US; if we didn’t have OPT they’d have to go back to their home country and contribute there. Instead with OPT we give them a chance to integrate into American companies, making the US more comp…

More like they come to America because there aren't enough opportunities or good enough facilities back at home, get years of experience and knowledge, then go back home and start a billion dollar business that starts competing with said American companies they were just working for.

I’d love to see the data on this. There aren’t that many billion dollar businesses, period, especially compare to the number of people on OPT.

If the US is a great place with more opportunity, then the pressure is to stay versus go back. When the US becomes anti-foreigner, then we all lose.

Re: Data on How America Sold Out Its Computer Science Graduates

#70

Post by azinman2 »

waitwhatwhoa wrote: post #50
azinman2 wrote: post #15

“eliminate the STEM OPT extension” I won’t get into h1b which gets plenty of air time, but this is the first time I’ve ever heard anyone wanting to eliminate OPT. This is beyond idiotic. Foreigners come and get educated in the US; if we didn’t have OPT they’d have to go back to their home country and contribute there. Instead with OPT we give them a chance to integrate into American companies, making the US more comp…

The STEM OPT _extension_ is an additional year on top of the one year that all graduates get. I believe the article is arguing for getting rid of that extension, not all OPT.

Good point, but does 2 vs 3 years really make a difference in the context of the larger argument?
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