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Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

open-web-advocacy.org

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Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#61

Post by FirmwareBurner »

boroboro4 wrote: post #56
pickledoyster wrote: post #55

On top of that, iOS continues to push Safari on users by disregarding their default browser settings. Steps to reproduce: 0. Select a different default browser, delete the Safari app (just for good measure, even though it's not really possible just like deleting IE in older Win versions) 1. Open the Books app 2. Select text 3. Select Search 4. Press Search the Web 5. Safari search results open as you stare in disbeli…

They do similarly with dates and calendar app. Disgraceful.

Apple knows that what they're doing is against the law, but every day, every month, every year they can get away with it, till the hammer of the law inevitably strikes, is more money in their pocket. So delaying it by every means necessary is what's in their best interest, it's what their lawyers are paid to do because each such decision of conforming to the law boils down to an accounting decision for them: "are the potential fines bigger than the profits".

You know a company has long lost the innovation race when the company is run by the lawyers and bean counters instead of the engineers, trying to milk their product lines form 10+ years ago. I wonder how long until they resort to becoming a patent troll ... oh wait. Their final form will be selling ads to their users.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#62

Post by tonyhart7 »

bapak wrote: post #38
fabian2k wrote: post #13

The simple fact that they restrict this to the EU, where they are forced to provide the option, shows that Apple is not serious about this. They're barely fulfilling the letter of the law here. If this would be only about security as Apple claims, there would be no reason to restrict this to the EU and to force Browser vendors to publish other engines as separate apps after they meet the security conditions Apple imp…

> Apple is not serious about this. They're barely fulfilling the letter of the law here. Is that surprising in any way? They've been asked to not reject third party browser engines in the EU. Check. Google has plenty of developers in the EU so I'm not even sure what people want exactly.

they want apple adhere to EU law for everyone outside the EU lol

how can people think like this

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#63

Post by oblio »

bapak wrote: post #40
oblio wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Chrome has a full monopoly, guess what's the next logical action... Might as well get it over with quickly. In case it's not obvious, these crutches should be removed. Treat Google paying Apple for the use of Google's search engine and Mozilla for the same thing, as anti-competitive (they're token gestures propping up the monopoly). And break Google up in multiple companies. Not sure along which lines but I would…

> Nobody has the guts anymore. I think nobody has the manpower to deal with all the shit. The EU already regularly fines big companies, but for every fine they get away with so much.

I meant more in the US. I think they had a fairly aggressive head of FTC but she's been removed (Lina Khan?).

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#64

Post by oblio »

tehbeard wrote: post #42
oblio wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As long as people in the US can't test their web app on "firefox for iOS" without first buying a plane ticket to the EU and getting an EU sim card, all eu-only browser engines on iOS will be second-class citizens. VM is EU. Heck, it can be an ephemeral instance on EC2, so it would only cost money while in use, probably tens of cents or something. If there's a will, there's a way.

Remote debug on iOS is ass unless you are fully invested into their ecosystem. And apple has some "nice" licencing nonsense around their software that makes VMs not the "obvious" solution.

Ah, that was silly from me, I forgot about those shenanigans.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#65

Post by ezst »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #61
boroboro4 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do similarly with dates and calendar app. Disgraceful.

Apple knows that what they're doing is against the law, but every day, every month, every year they can get away with it, till the hammer of the law inevitably strikes, is more money in their pocket. So delaying it by every means necessary is what's in their best interest, it's what their lawyers are paid to do because each such decision of conforming to the law boils down to an accounting decision for them: "are the…

Tech giants need to be dismantled.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#66

Post by rafaelmn »

selckin wrote: post #6

This Apple policy is the only thing stopping chrome from having a full monopoly, and we should be careful trying to remove it

Google has an incentive to make everything work through the web. Safari has the incentive to gatekeep the app store revenue, which is why PWAs are a joke on iOS.

Google also has bad incentives (Android, ads) but Safari is the IE6 of modern web.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#67

Post by sealeck »

fabian2k wrote: post #13

The simple fact that they restrict this to the EU, where they are forced to provide the option, shows that Apple is not serious about this. They're barely fulfilling the letter of the law here. If this would be only about security as Apple claims, there would be no reason to restrict this to the EU and to force Browser vendors to publish other engines as separate apps after they meet the security conditions Apple imp…

> The simple fact that they restrict this to the EU, where they are forced to provide the option, shows that Apple is not serious about this. They're barely fulfilling the letter of the law here.

Apple may or (more likely) may not be complying in terms of allowing third party browser engines, but I don't see how you can argue that not implementing this _outside_ the EU fails to comply with EU law (which applies _inside_ the EU).

That's not to say they shouldn't allow this elsewhere (although it will just cement the Chrome monopoly - actually _decreasing_ competition and solidifying the incumbent's position) but I don't think you can argue that this law requires them to do that.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#68

Post by RegW »

systemtest wrote: post #17
elashri wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is shame that this is true. However it should not mean that we need to accept this situation. Hopefully Google anti competitive practices with Chrome can be addressed at the same time.

Those popups I get multiple times a day about how this website works better on Chrome , which cover half my screen and which forward me to the App Store, are incredibly misleading. I have misclicked many times and then the App Store opens up. If you go back to the browser and hit the back button, it will again open the App Store. I have to press and hold the back button and skip multiple pages to get back to what I w…

Strange - I don't get this in Firefox. I wonder if its because I'm in the UK or perhaps Privacy Badger is blocking it.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#69

Post by amadeuspagel »

oblio wrote: post #29
TheDong wrote: post #4

I agree with the point about non-EU web developers. As long as people in the US can't test their web app on "firefox for iOS" without first buying a plane ticket to the EU and getting an EU sim card, all eu-only browser engines on iOS will be second-class citizens. I think the next logical extension is that actually limiting general public use across the entire world makes apple less compliant with the DMA. Mozilla w…

> As long as people in the US can't test their web app on "firefox for iOS" without first buying a plane ticket to the EU and getting an EU sim card, all eu-only browser engines on iOS will be second-class citizens. VM is EU. Heck, it can be an ephemeral instance on EC2, so it would only cost money while in use, probably tens of cents or something. If there's a will, there's a way.

You can't develop an app if you aren't able to test it like a real user would use it on a real device.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#70

Post by WesolyKubeczek »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #61
boroboro4 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do similarly with dates and calendar app. Disgraceful.

Apple knows that what they're doing is against the law, but every day, every month, every year they can get away with it, till the hammer of the law inevitably strikes, is more money in their pocket. So delaying it by every means necessary is what's in their best interest, it's what their lawyers are paid to do because each such decision of conforming to the law boils down to an accounting decision for them: "are the…

They say that somewhere one Darl McBride makes a sad chuckle reading this.
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