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Astro is a return to the fundamentals of the web

websmith.studio

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Re: Astro is a return to the fundamentals of the web

#61

Post by ansc »

esseph wrote: post #26
ansc wrote: post #22

>See that code fence at the top? That runs at build time, not in the browser. Your data fetching, your logic - it all happens before the user even loads the page. I can't with this goddamn LLM blog posts, it just drowns everything.

Some of us actually write like that... :/ Sucks when everything you write sounds like a bot because you're autistic.

I doubt it to be honest. It's so distinct and non-existing.

>With Astro you're not locked into a single way of doing things. Need React for a complex form? Chuck it in. Prefer Vue for data visualisation? Go for it. Want to keep most things as simple Astro components? Perfect.

>What struck me most after migrating several projects is how Astro makes the right thing the easy thing. Want a fast site? That's the default. Want to add interactivity? Easy, but only where you need it. Want to use your favourite framework? Go ahead, Astro won't judge.

>Developer experience that actually delivers

I am downvoted so I guess I'm wrong. It's just bland and form in a way ChatGPT usually outputs. Sorry to the author if I'm wrong.

Re: Astro is a return to the fundamentals of the web

#63

Post by weego »

thibaultamartin wrote: post #9

I can only approve. To me Astro started as "it's just html and css but with includes." I used it for my personal website, and recently used it when reimplementing the Matrix Conference website. It's really a no-fuss framework that is a joy to use. Among the things I love about Astro: - It's still html and css centric - Once built, it doesn't require js by default - You can still opt-into adding js for interactivity h…

My one criticism which is why I ditched it for now is complex routing gets confusing and abstract quickly.

I don't know that there's a serious solution to it because complexity can't come with zero friction but just my gut feeling was to back out and go with something else for now.

Re: Astro is a return to the fundamentals of the web

#64

Post by z3t4 »

diggan wrote: post #10

> Traditional frameworks hydrate entire pages with JavaScript. Even if you've got a simple blog post with one interactive widget, the whole page gets the JavaScript treatment. Astro flips this on its head. Your pages are static HTML by default, and only the bits that need interactivity become JavaScript "islands." Back in my days we called this "progressive enhancements" (or even just "web pages"), and was basically…

The first web frameworks really got it right with stateless websites and server rendering.

Re: Astro is a return to the fundamentals of the web

#65

Post by threetonesun »

dschuessler wrote: post #47
teekoiv wrote: post #20

It's baffling to me why more SSR frameworks, Astro and NextJS namely, can't adopt static pages with dynamic paths like SvelteKit. So for example, if you have a page /todos/[todoId] you can't serve those in your static bundle and NextJS straight-out refuse building your app statically. Whereas with SvelteKit, it builds happily and does this beautiful catch-all mechanism where a default response page, say 404.html in C…

Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but isn't this what Astro's `getStaticPaths`[0] function is for? [0]: ` https://docs.astro.build/en/guides/routing/#static-ssg-mode

I think since they used [todoId] in the example they mean a static page which does not exist at build time. Which both can do, it’s called ISG (or on-demand in the Astro docs), but it requires a server to work, or you can create a static route that accepts any parameters and pass those to JavaScript to run on the client.

Re: Astro is a return to the fundamentals of the web

#66

Post by rambambram »

api wrote: post #49
diggan wrote: post #10

> Traditional frameworks hydrate entire pages with JavaScript. Even if you've got a simple blog post with one interactive widget, the whole page gets the JavaScript treatment. Astro flips this on its head. Your pages are static HTML by default, and only the bits that need interactivity become JavaScript "islands." Back in my days we called this "progressive enhancements" (or even just "web pages"), and was basically…

This field (software) in general, and especially web stuff, has no memory. It’s a cascade of teens and twentysomethings rediscovering the same paradigms over and over again with different names. I think we are overdue for a rediscovery of object oriented programming and OOP design patterns but it will be called something else. We just got through an era of rediscovering the mainframe and calling it “cloud native.” Ev…

This. So much this. I'm not even 42 and I feel old when I read stuff like this. Like you say, there's no memory in the web software field.

Re: Astro is a return to the fundamentals of the web

#68

Post by api »

rambambram wrote: post #66
api wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This field (software) in general, and especially web stuff, has no memory. It’s a cascade of teens and twentysomethings rediscovering the same paradigms over and over again with different names. I think we are overdue for a rediscovery of object oriented programming and OOP design patterns but it will be called something else. We just got through an era of rediscovering the mainframe and calling it “cloud native.” Ev…

This. So much this. I'm not even 42 and I feel old when I read stuff like this. Like you say, there's no memory in the web software field.

Wasted effort reinventing things and rediscovering their limits and failure modes is a major downside of the ageism that is rampant in the industry. There is nobody around to say “actually this has been tried three times by three previous generations of devs and this is what they learned.”

Another one: WASM is a good VM spec and the VM implementations are good, but the ecosystem with its DSLs and component model is getting an over engineered complexity smell. Remind anyone of… say… J2EE? Good VM, good foundation, massive excess complexity higher up the stack.

Re: Astro is a return to the fundamentals of the web

#69

Post by Zealotux »

vidyesh wrote: post #59
Zealotux wrote: post #55

Please stop recommending Next.js as the de facto React framework, we need some critical thinking back into front-end. Remix (React Router v7) or TanStack are much better alternatives.

Remix/React Router v7 was/is on a right path. I hope whatever they are planning with Remix with preact and using web standards will bring back the robust way of building websites. I did not like how Remix to RR7 transition was made though, my project built using Remix was not an easy upgrade and I am rewriting a lot of it on RR7 now.

Absolutely agree, the Remix/RR7 move was awkward and they have a thing for breaking changes, TanStack seems more reasonable on that part.
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