Toys/Lag: Jerk Monitor • Hacker News Board

Re: Toys/Lag: Jerk Monitor

#61

Post by amluto » Tue, Jul 08, 2025, 7:03 AM UTC

pvg wrote: post #42

andai wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The effects you describe are specific to CRTs only, right? Caused by the electron beam effectively illuminating one pixel at a time?

Yes this a (computer) CRT thing. The commenter might be misremembering the exact numbers, 60 Hz baseline is a flat panel thing, by the mid to late 90s, 75 Hz was something a typical computer CRT would generally aim for and was part of various standards and recommendations.

I’m fairly confident I remember the numbers right. And VESA DMT indeed has 1600x1200 at 60, 65, 70, 75, 85 and 120Hz, and IIRC my old CRT would sync at 144Hz as well with somewhat dubious performance.

https://glenwing.github.io/docs/VESA-DMT-1.12.pdf

Re: Toys/Lag: Jerk Monitor

#62

Post by haiku2077 » Sat, Jul 12, 2025, 5:47 PM UTC

sillysaurusx wrote: post #57

Xss3 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

60hz isnt a generally accepted threshold by anyone. This entire opinion is based on junk. Why do you think the brain has such limits? Youve drawn them from where exactly?

On the contrary, if you ask a random person how fast the fps needs to be before it doesn’t really matter, the vast majority will say either 60 (because that’s usually the cap) or 24 (because it’s what movies use). If it wasn’t generally accepted, the world wouldn’t use it in well over 9 out of 10 cases. You’re correct that the rest of my comment was mistaken; see the sibling comment that presents a paper from nearly…

60 comes from the electrical grid - 20th century TV used the electrical grid to sync rather than forcing every TV to have a perfectly synced clock. Regions that didn't have 60Hz electrical grids used other standard framerates.

24 comes from the first "talkies" that had syncronized sound - it was the lowest framerate that sounded good. Before that, silent films were often at lower framerates to reduce the cost of film.

Re: Toys/Lag: Jerk Monitor

#63

Post by tofof » Fri, Jul 18, 2025, 4:37 PM UTC

tofof wrote: post #23

sillysaurusx wrote: post #10

I can buy that humans can see at least 120hz at a minimum. 60Hz is the generally accepted threshold, but I’ve long suspected that 120Hz has mostly imperceptible effects that are still noticeable, if rarely. I can’t buy this: > I've also learnt I do benefit from the 8 kHz setting of my mouse, as even at 3200 DPI with fast & smooth motion, some frames still miss a pointer update It may be true that pointer updates were…

So tired of defending against this same, old, completely wrong intuition from people especially those saying "do the science" to justify their ignorance instead of looking themselves since the science has already been done and it's coming up on a full century old. From this one paper alone, humans can perceive information from a single frame at 2000 Hz. https://doi.org/10.1080/00223980.1945.9917254 Humans can read nu…

Embarassingly, as I reread this 11 days later (wondering where I got a 20 point score bump from), I notice I once again said the exact opposite of cone and rod. I seem to be cursed to do this every time I mention them even though I am extremely well aware of the difference. The periphery and single-photon nature I was referring to are of course our low-light ROD cells, with color high-detail high-light-need cone cells at the fovea. So, for anyone in the future reading my comment, there's the first correction.

The second is that I didn't catch that my paste buffer dropped the same link in when I switch to talking about fusion flicker threshold during saccades. The specific paper I meant to link was this one, though there does not seem to be a fully public version available. Even so, discussions and citations of this paper and others are easy to find.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1477153512436367

I'm surprised neither error got caught at the time.