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Using the Internet without IPv4 connectivity

jamesmcm.github.io

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Re: Using the Internet without IPv4 connectivity

#61

Post by avhception »

somidscr21 wrote: post #58
avhception wrote: post #10

I'm operating a few IPv6-only VPNs at work, for access to internal infrastructure. The biggest problem so far is that Windows and macOS clients need a v6 DNS server. Otherwise, they won't even try to resolve v6onlyhost.vpn.example.com. Because the client may or may not be in a v6-enabled network, I have to run a DNS server inside the VPN and push that to the client, which can lead to all kinds of problems when the VP…

I've found that using my v4 only network from my ISP and macOS can do v6 only without requiring a DNS server like you have been doing. I don't remember the details now, but after some digging a few years ago I realized macOS will happily work like that as long as it has a v6 address. I can put a ULA address on my host, and it's good to go. Granted this relies on users knowing how to do that. or depending on the VPN a…

Interesting. Do you actually use that trick in production? I'd have to find a name of an interface that I could safely mess with...

Re: Using the Internet without IPv4 connectivity

#62

Post by mananaysiempre »

jeroenhd wrote: post #31
simonjgreen wrote: post #3

Slightly misleading title, this is more “getting to the IPv4 internet via an IPv6 tunnel through a VPS”. Also just called 4in6. Interesting nonetheless! We find at our ISP that if we break something with IPv4 we experience a very different type of support issue to if we break IPv6. Breaking v4 results in, broadly, a pretty hard “down” state. While folks are unhappy, it is at least simple. Breaking v6 results in weird…

When my IPv4 died last time, I noticed it mostly because Github didn't work anymore. These days, most consumer websites just work on IPv6. That said, people whose routers were only provisioned IPv4 DNS servers did have a full outage. If Microsoft would get off their incompetent assets already, my biggest concern would've been remembering the mDNS hostname I've assigned to my router so I could log in and see if IPv4 i…

The POSIX bug tracker is not accessible over IPv6, either, because their AWS setup does not support it. The website administrators refused to fix this[1].

[1] https://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=1623

Re: Using the Internet without IPv4 connectivity

#63

Post by pQd »

Abekkus wrote: post #50
pQd wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

aspect worth noting: up to my knowledge HE's tunnel will work only if you're assigned public IPv4 by your ISP. if you're behind a carrier grade NAT - too bad, you'll need to use another solution to get IPv6 to your home.

Strange. This sounds like something Hurricane Electric specifically limited. There’s nothing in CGNAT that would naturally break such a tunnel

HE is using plain stateless IPv6 in IPv4 tunnel - it's neither TCP nor UDP, it's not NAT'able.

it's relatively simple for them to implement [ the stateless part ] but due to that puts some requirements on the party establishing the tunnel.

Re: Using the Internet without IPv4 connectivity

#64

Post by xyzzyz »

daneel_w wrote: post #57
xyzzyz wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and why did people ask for these oversized networks? That’s right, because addresses were free.

That's a depressingly shallow knee-jerk-y way of reasoning around something so fantastically open as the Internet... You're offering the deplorable solution of "let the money vote" instead of reason and restraint. The consequence if we had asked for money from the get-go would've been a corporate-ruled scenario where connectivity and Internet foothold were primarily in the hands of the businesses that had the most mo…

The fact of the matter is that “let the money vote” works much better than alternatives. “Reason and restraint” is precisely how we got to where we are.

Re: Using the Internet without IPv4 connectivity

#66

Post by somidscr21 »

avhception wrote: post #61
somidscr21 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found that using my v4 only network from my ISP and macOS can do v6 only without requiring a DNS server like you have been doing. I don't remember the details now, but after some digging a few years ago I realized macOS will happily work like that as long as it has a v6 address. I can put a ULA address on my host, and it's good to go. Granted this relies on users knowing how to do that. or depending on the VPN a…

Interesting. Do you actually use that trick in production? I'd have to find a name of an interface that I could safely mess with...

Yeah I've been using it daily for almost a year as have many other people at work

Re: Using the Internet without IPv4 connectivity

#67

Post by neilalexander »

allyourdatas wrote: post #32

Why would I ever need IPv6 at home or in my office? Explain to me logically why I need it in my house or in my office? I do not care about using up the last internet address because that is akin to the 'think of the children' crap used to justify things on an emotional level in order to manipulate people. There's no way I'll exhaust the private address spaces and I not not see NAT as a negative. I do not want my frid…

Logically? Because the world’s needs are changing and one day there will be something you want or need that will be accessible via IPv6, at which point you can either move with the times or be left behind.

IPv6 global adoption is on the rise whether you see the point in it or not. The religious arguments and nitpicking no longer matter.

Re: Using the Internet without IPv4 connectivity

#68

Post by msgodel »

simonjgreen wrote: post #3

Slightly misleading title, this is more “getting to the IPv4 internet via an IPv6 tunnel through a VPS”. Also just called 4in6. Interesting nonetheless! We find at our ISP that if we break something with IPv4 we experience a very different type of support issue to if we break IPv6. Breaking v4 results in, broadly, a pretty hard “down” state. While folks are unhappy, it is at least simple. Breaking v6 results in weird…

Most ISPs still just block IPv6 altogether because most small businesses seem to try IPv6 once and then forget to eg update their AAAA records so to the user it looks like their favorite niche thing works when they're on but not on the one they're paying for which creates problems.

It's kind of a weird issue, I don't know if there are nice solutions other than hoping IPv4 just goes away eventually. Happy eyeballs was supposed to solve this but often the problems manifest way up in the application layer and there's no general protocol for solving that without some kind of very leaky abstraction because the application can do anything.

The compromise I personally have to make things smooth is enabling ipv6 in the network and then disabling ipv6 DNS on all of my browsers which is pretty unsatisfying.

Re: Using the Internet without IPv4 connectivity

#69

Post by kstrauser »

crims0n wrote: post #43
xacky wrote: post #35

I have strong opinions about ipv4, especially since I'm forced to use an ipv4 isp. The lack of ipv6 adoption should be considered one of the great failures of tech. Who actually is responsible? Is it router manufacturers writing poor quality firmware, ipv4 advocates in leadership positions at isps, ipv4 address speculators, poor training of network engineers and tech support staff? I think we all need to have a much…

We have a saying in the industry… IPv6 is an academic solution to an engineering problem. The reality is it’s just too damn complicated to implement and maintain at scale while also retaining compatibility with v4… which is never going to go away because other than the address shortage, there are no problems with it.

We have no such saying in the industry. IPv6 is generally easier to implement and maintain. If IPv6 were the incumbent and someone came in proposing IPv4, they’d be laughed out of the room for its ridiculousness. “You have to run a stateful server just to assign addresses? Dynamic header length? A tiny address space? And tell me again about this NAT thing, LOL.”

V6 was designed by the engineers who realized what they got wrong in V4.

Re: Using the Internet without IPv4 connectivity

#70

Post by ikiris »

msgodel wrote: post #68
simonjgreen wrote: post #3

Slightly misleading title, this is more “getting to the IPv4 internet via an IPv6 tunnel through a VPS”. Also just called 4in6. Interesting nonetheless! We find at our ISP that if we break something with IPv4 we experience a very different type of support issue to if we break IPv6. Breaking v4 results in, broadly, a pretty hard “down” state. While folks are unhappy, it is at least simple. Breaking v6 results in weird…

Most ISPs still just block IPv6 altogether because most small businesses seem to try IPv6 once and then forget to eg update their AAAA records so to the user it looks like their favorite niche thing works when they're on but not on the one they're paying for which creates problems. It's kind of a weird issue, I don't know if there are nice solutions other than hoping IPv4 just goes away eventually. Happy eyeballs was…

[citation needed]
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