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XSLT – Native, zero-config build system for the Web

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Re: XSLT – Native, zero-config build system for the Web

#61

Post by notpushkin »

elcapitan wrote: post #38

> how I can run it? open XML file > open blog.xml -a Safari This didn't work for me on my browsers (FF/Chrome/Safari) on Mac, apparently XSLT only works there when accessed through HTTP: $ python3 -m http.server --directory . $ open http://localhost:8000/blog.xml I remember long hours using XSLT to transform custom XML formats into some other representation that was used by WXWindows in the 2000s, maybe I should give…

> --directory .

Huh, neat! Did’t know it supported that. (python3 -m http.server will default to current directory anyway though)

Re: XSLT – Native, zero-config build system for the Web

#62

Post by jonwinstanley »

viraptor wrote: post #56
p0w3n3d wrote: post #34

Ok, so it might be a long shot, but I would say that 1. the browsers were inconsistent in 1990-2000 so we started using JS to make them behave the same 2. meanwhile the only thing we needed were good CSS styles which were not yet present and consistent behaviour 3. over the years the browsers started behaving the same (mainly because Highlander rules - there can be only one, but Firefox is also coping well) 4. but we…

That timeline doesn't sound right to me. JS was rarely used to standardise behaviour - we had lots of user agent detection and relying on quirks ordering to force the right layout. JS really was for the interactivity at the beginning - DHTML and later AJAX. I don't think it even had easy access to layout related things? (I may be mistaken though) CSS didn't really make things more consistent either - once it became c…

For me, JQuery was the thing that fixed the browser inconsistencies. If you used JQuery for everything, your code worked in all the browsers.

This was maybe 2008?

Re: XSLT – Native, zero-config build system for the Web

#63

Post by maxloh »

CiaranMcNulty wrote: post #19

It's sad how the bloat of '00s enterprise XML made the tech seem outdated and drove everyone to 'cleaner' JSON, because things like XSLT and XPath were very mature and solved a lot of the problems we still struggle with in other formats. I'm probably guilty of some of the bad practice: I have fond memories of (ab)using XSLT includes back in the day with PHP stream wrappers to have stuff like ` ` This may be out-of-da…

However, XML is actually a worse format to transfer over the internet. It's bloated and consumes more bandwidth.

Re: XSLT – Native, zero-config build system for the Web

#64

Post by jbverschoor »

jonwinstanley wrote: post #62
viraptor wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That timeline doesn't sound right to me. JS was rarely used to standardise behaviour - we had lots of user agent detection and relying on quirks ordering to force the right layout. JS really was for the interactivity at the beginning - DHTML and later AJAX. I don't think it even had easy access to layout related things? (I may be mistaken though) CSS didn't really make things more consistent either - once it became c…

For me, JQuery was the thing that fixed the browser inconsistencies. If you used JQuery for everything, your code worked in all the browsers. This was maybe 2008?

Probably 2005.

2002, I was using “JSRS”, and returning http 204/no content, which causes the browser to NOT refresh/load the page.

Just for small interactive things, like a start/pause button for scheduled tasks. The progress bar etc.

But yeah, in my opinion we lost about 15 years of proper progress.

The network is the computer came true

The SUN/JEE model is great.

It’s just that monopolies stifle progress and better standards.

Standards are pretty much dead, and everything is at the application layer.

That said.. I think XSLT sucks, although I haven’t touched it in almost 20 years. The projects I was on, there was this designer/xslt guru. He could do anything with it.

XPath is quite nice though

Re: XSLT – Native, zero-config build system for the Web

#65

Post by bmacho »

petesergeant wrote: post #24

XSLT is great fun as a general functional programming language! You can build native functional data-structures[1], implement graph-traversal algorithms[2], and even write test assertions[3]! 1: https://github.com/pjlsergeant/xslt-fever-dream/blob/main/ut... 2: https://github.com/pjlsergeant/xslt-fever-dream/blob/main/ut... 3: https://github.com/pjlsergeant/xslt-fever-dream/blob/main/ut...

Files are missing from the repo(?). What about util-map.xsl, test-map.xsl, util-serialize.xsl

Re: XSLT – Native, zero-config build system for the Web

#68

Post by petesergeant »

bmacho wrote: post #65
petesergeant wrote: post #24

XSLT is great fun as a general functional programming language! You can build native functional data-structures[1], implement graph-traversal algorithms[2], and even write test assertions[3]! 1: https://github.com/pjlsergeant/xslt-fever-dream/blob/main/ut... 2: https://github.com/pjlsergeant/xslt-fever-dream/blob/main/ut... 3: https://github.com/pjlsergeant/xslt-fever-dream/blob/main/ut...

Files are missing from the repo(?). What about util-map.xsl, test-map.xsl, util-serialize.xsl

I've updated this, as well as included instructions on running the built-in unit tests, which are of course also written in XSLT.

Re: XSLT – Native, zero-config build system for the Web

#69

Post by JimDabell »

I used XSLT as a build system for websites way back in 1999–2000. The developer ergonomics were terrible. Looking at the example given, it doesn’t seem like anything much has changed.

Has there been any progress on making this into something developers would actually like to use? As far as I can tell, it’s only ever used in situations where it’s a last resort, such as making Atom/RSS feeds viewable in browsers that don’t support them.

Re: XSLT – Native, zero-config build system for the Web

#70

Post by kome »

_def wrote: post #22

We've come full circle again. Yes this works great since many years, XML is just so much clutter.

clutter? i find it MUCH more elegant and simple, but conceptually and practically, than the absolute clown-car of modern js driven web, css frameworks hacks, etc etc
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