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KDE for Windows 10 Exiles – Upgrade your software, not your computer

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Re: KDE for Windows 10 Exiles – Upgrade your software, not your computer

#61
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tbf it was the same story when Windows XP went EoL and by now almost all of those have been replaced. So what's most likely is that Windows 10 will stick around for some time until it silently fades away, just like XP did, regardless of CPU/TPM shenanigans.

As somebody that was using Windows XP up to its EoL, I am fairly certain I was in the minority (at least amongst home users.) I don't think anybody I knew was using XP by the time its end came. The only reason I was still on it at the time was a complete lack of income which meant using very old hand-me-down hardware. The situation with Windows 10 feels quite different, because most people I know that use Windows are…

Nah it was the same when Windows XP went EoL, people were also up in arms having to replace computers that worked perfectly fine for them.

Re: KDE for Windows 10 Exiles – Upgrade your software, not your computer

#62
post #32
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> everything is now a webapp When, why and how became this a good thing?

>> everything is now a webapp > When, why and how became this a good thing? Cheap instant all-terrain deployment trumps most other considerations, especially where technical onboarding is on the critical path to customer acquisition.

There are definitely advantages to companies. As an end-user, the only advantages I can think of are data centralization and device portability.

While we're talking about "webapps", generally, and not SaaS specifically... the two often go so hand in hand that it is the exception to see a webapp that is not also a SaaS product.. and as a consumer I kind of mostly hate SaaS.

With the above two advantages noted, lets look at the cons:

- Companies can, and routinely do, push unwanted UX changes on me without my opt-in. Pre-SaaS you would wait for a new version to come out and could see what the reviews were saying before deciding if you like the changes and want the new features. Now you're a guinea pig and get the new "features" whether they are a benefit to you or not.

- Forces me to have my data on someone else's computer

- The "other peoples' computer" issue means that if there is a software or a hardware failure that prevents me from being able to do urgent work that it is entirely outside of my hands and my ability to troubleshoot the majority of the time (though this is a double edged sword since for the average non-technical user it can be a big benefit)

- Can't work without an active Internet connection (though I'll concede that not having an active connection is becoming pretty rare these days)

- If the company goes out of business, say goodbye to your data in the majority of cases

- Often goes hand in hand with renting the software rather than paying a flat fee for a perpetual license. Given the choice, I will always opt for a perpetual license. I try hard to have as few recurring payments in my budget as possible. Utility bills are bad enough.

If, however, by "webapp" we just mean a desktop application that uses a DOM-based rendering engine then I couldn't care less. There are tradeoffs, but they are purely technical and rarely impact UX directly in the way that a general approach to software delivery and consumption does.

Re: KDE for Windows 10 Exiles – Upgrade your software, not your computer

#63
I find Plasma much more pleasant to use than Windows' shell. There's no specific big feature that makes it stand out, but it works just a little more smoothly in almost everything it does.

Maybe it's a case of [1], but I think Plasma is ready for the average desktop user. The other parts of the system may have some ways to go.

[1]: https://xkcd.com/2501/

Re: KDE for Windows 10 Exiles – Upgrade your software, not your computer

#64
post #3

This really just blows my mind that Microsoft believes people are going to throw their perfectly functional laptops/desktops into the trash. All Microsoft has to do to keep people on Windows and in the Microsoft ecosystem would be to offer a supported version of Windows 11 without the CPU and TPM 2.0 requirements. For me, every one of the older machines in my household (laptops and desktops) that are currently on Win…

You can install Win 11, but not in-place. Need to use boot media. This is an obstacle for many people, but not someone who would I stall Linux. (From boot media)

You can in place. Even the 11 iot enterprise that officially doesn't have the artificial hardware blocks.

Re: KDE for Windows 10 Exiles – Upgrade your software, not your computer

#65
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is, in fact, the point. They do not want the support burden and negative security posture of supporting billions of computers that cannot have a locked bootloader.

Linux has no problem supporting pretty much every PC hardware ever made, any filesystem, etc. So while it might reduce their costs, they are hedging customers every generation

Linux Foundation doesn’t “support” anything in the sense met above. They do not provide antivirus updates, or a help line, or consultation services. They are not responsible in any way if every device running linux gets hacked. It’s simply not their problem — but it is Microsoft’s.

Re: KDE for Windows 10 Exiles – Upgrade your software, not your computer

#66
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As somebody that was using Windows XP up to its EoL, I am fairly certain I was in the minority (at least amongst home users.) I don't think anybody I knew was using XP by the time its end came. The only reason I was still on it at the time was a complete lack of income which meant using very old hand-me-down hardware. The situation with Windows 10 feels quite different, because most people I know that use Windows are…

Nah it was the same when Windows XP went EoL, people were also up in arms having to replace computers that worked perfectly fine for them.

I was working at a web design company a little after windows XP went EoL. One site had a member on thier board who kept raising a stink because the redesigned site didn't work right on their computer. Found out that they were using IE6 or whatever on XP. Our estimate for the fix was $600, which was like an additional 2-3% on top of the original estimate so it was approved. The $600 was used to buy a new laptop for that board member with Windows7 and whatever the latest IE was installed.

Re: KDE for Windows 10 Exiles – Upgrade your software, not your computer

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but this isn't particular to Linux. On what platform is it better? In terms of developer experience, web apps just beat distributing to the end-user device every time.

Every other platform. Windows, Mac? Bundle your own updater. Or use Steam. Download one file and run with a click. PlayStation? Nintendo? Submit it, wait about two weeks, and out it goes. The Linux desktop is single handedly the worst distribution platform for an app developer, both in fragmentation and being unable to update your own software. The Linux desktop also had the arrogance to claim developers should do it…

Who or what is this "the Linux desktop" you speak of? ;)

Re: KDE for Windows 10 Exiles – Upgrade your software, not your computer

#68
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> everything is now a webapp > When, why and how became this a good thing? Cheap instant all-terrain deployment trumps most other considerations, especially where technical onboarding is on the critical path to customer acquisition.

There are definitely advantages to companies. As an end-user, the only advantages I can think of are data centralization and device portability. While we're talking about "webapps", generally, and not SaaS specifically... the two often go so hand in hand that it is the exception to see a webapp that is not also a SaaS product.. and as a consumer I kind of mostly hate SaaS. With the above two advantages noted, lets lo…

Except a lot of these are problems with so-called native apps too. My experience using MacOS for the better half of a decade ended with >80% of the software I paid for being unsupported. My options were to continue using a non-secure OS version or update to an environment where my software doesn't run anymore.

I think you're the last of a dying breed of users. The iPhone generation doesn't lose their internet connection, throw a hissy-fit when UX changes or even care all that much when data is on a remote server. They will pay for whatever is successfully marketed to them, and that company will be rewarded with success. This is what the App Store conditions users into wanting, if OnePass tells you to switch to their Electron app then you have zero choice in the matter.

My solution has simply been to never pay for software. Not native, not SaaS webapps, not Electron containers. It's all just one big scam when free alternatives to 99% of meaningful software exists if you're willing to eschew laziness.

Re: KDE for Windows 10 Exiles – Upgrade your software, not your computer

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are definitely advantages to companies. As an end-user, the only advantages I can think of are data centralization and device portability. While we're talking about "webapps", generally, and not SaaS specifically... the two often go so hand in hand that it is the exception to see a webapp that is not also a SaaS product.. and as a consumer I kind of mostly hate SaaS. With the above two advantages noted, lets lo…

Except a lot of these are problems with so-called native apps too. My experience using MacOS for the better half of a decade ended with >80% of the software I paid for being unsupported. My options were to continue using a non-secure OS version or update to an environment where my software doesn't run anymore. I think you're the last of a dying breed of users. The iPhone generation doesn't lose their internet connect…

> My experience using MacOS

Well there's your problem lol.

I still have paid software from the 90s that I can run. And if things get really sticky due to OS incompatibilities, you can spin up an old version of an OS in a VM. The retro gaming community does really well at running software that is now 40-50 years old too.

I hear you about not paying for software. For most applications I use FOSS when possible. There are applications though where using proprietary is the lesser evil because the FOSS options - if they exist at all - are really bad.

And yeah, I might be in the extreme minority when it comes to users. I'm neurodivergent so that definitely contributes to my aversion to change. It doesn't mean my opinion isn't valid or that I don't have the right to complain though. What I want is software that won't change on me without my opt-in, and that will let me keep my data locally. Maybe most users don't want that, but there are those of us out there and that speaks to untapped niche. Maybe you won't get rich making software for us, but there are far more small mom & pop shops in the world than there are massive rich mega-corps. I'm happy giving them my money.

Re: KDE for Windows 10 Exiles – Upgrade your software, not your computer

#70

Something often ignored by articles like these: you can still use Windows 10 safely past the 10 year support period, if you pay for additional updates: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/extended... Realistically, many people will use registry hacks and other forms of piracy to get those updates for free, of course, just like people did with Windows 7. Only businesses or people afraid of viruses will…

Worth noting: For home users, the first year of that Win 10 Extended Support appears to cost only $30. Has MS decided that "make it cheap & easy to be legal" is their best counter-piracy strategy?

I don't think my parents will be paying $30 for Windows 10, and neither will many non-IT friends. Plus, even if you decide to go legal after a year, you're still paying the cumulative price ($60 if you buy a year of support in November 2026). I think their pricing strategy is more "don't blame us for the lack of competition in the OS space, we offered you an alternative to replacing your hardware" than "make it cheap & easy to be legal".

If they wanted to make the offer look good, I think they would've put out special offers with OneDrive storage and a year of extra security support for $5 per month rather than $2.50 a month for just updates.

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