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Cap: Lightweight, modern open-source CAPTCHA alternative using proof-of-work

capjs.js.org

61–70 of 125 posts

Re: Cap: Lightweight, modern open-source CAPTCHA alternative using proof-of-work

#61
post #19

I don't mind captchas to protect forms and such, but given that so many sites want captchas solved for the first GET request, I really wonder how much more CO2 this is going to produce. And when I see "invisible mode", I'd really like to ask the authors if they think their work is a net-positive for the world.

> how much more CO2 this is going to produce extremely minimal emissions, you're only solving a small cryptographic challenge after all.

Re: Cap: Lightweight, modern open-source CAPTCHA alternative using proof-of-work

#62
post #31

KiwiFarms has had a similar captcha system since they got dropped by Cloudflare

How do you know?

It's the most reliable place to get the latest news on certain internet grifters and scammers (SVSeeker, a project to build a crowdfunded "scientific research vessel" being one of the ones I follow out of morbid curiousity).

Re: Cap: Lightweight, modern open-source CAPTCHA alternative using proof-of-work

#64
I like the simplicity of this project. I created my own open-source, no tracking captcha using both proof-of-work and image puzzle challenges 4 years ago as a side project for my studies and my former employer's internal hackathon [0].

At the time, it was an idea based on spam prevention active systems. However, for the browser, there are many issues with such solutions—if you can solve it, then bots can too. It slows them down a little, but that's about it.

[0] https://github.com/pilotpirxie/devcaptcha

Re: Cap: Lightweight, modern open-source CAPTCHA alternative using proof-of-work

#65

If you were doing a lot of scraping, you could just solve this on a GPU in 1/10 or less of the time it takes a human's phone to do it. Generally you need a decent computer to render a webpage while scraping it these days, so I don't see what this is solving.

scrapers usually don't render a webpage, else their scraping wouldn't be efficient at all.

Is that still true? There are so many SPAs out there now that if I were to create a web spider today, I would plan to just render a lot of the pages in a browser rather than fight the status quo. Efficiency wouldn't be my top concern.

Re: Cap: Lightweight, modern open-source CAPTCHA alternative using proof-of-work

#66

can someone ELI5 how these proof-of-work captchas work under the hood to detect whether i'm a bot or not?

They make it expensive to run large scale bots, so that deters the bots.

And they (probably?) use the computation power to crack passwords from people to let the government agencies access their accounts...

Re: Cap: Lightweight, modern open-source CAPTCHA alternative using proof-of-work

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[citation needed]

For which part? Every time a new submission is created on HN, you have a curl script that posts a comment on it shilling your product. (According to the /newest tab there seems to be one submission every few minutes.) What's harder for you to automate: the comment always posts successfully after 500ms, or you get a Cloudflare Turnstile captcha every time?

PoW is for a completely different threat model than CAPTCHA. If you're trying to decide which is better, you're doing it wrong.

Re: Cap: Lightweight, modern open-source CAPTCHA alternative using proof-of-work

#68

Did no-one click through to the technical white paper? https://www.researchgate.net/publication/374638786_Proof-of-... "Proof-of-Work CAPTCHA with password cracking functionality" The "work" is "to use the distributed power of webusers’ computers" to "obtain suspects’ passwords in order to access encrypted evidence" and "support law enforcement activities". Funny how that isn't mentioned anywhere in the linked site.

> Normally, it is undesirable for users’ passwords to be cracked. However, in the case of law enforcement, we often need to obtain suspects’ passwords in order to access encrypted evidence. The obvious solution is to build powerful (and expensive) dictionary cryptanalysis computers. A less obvious approach is to use the distributed power of web users’ computers, as has been done in the Seti@Home (https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/ — suspended project) or Folding@Home projects (https://foldingathome.org/). The proposed approach can therefore support law enforcement activities while providing the desired functionality to the web community

"You're not allowed to visit this website unless you submit your computer to being part of the fed's password cracking botnet" that's a whole fresh hell. A better use case is right there in their own description! I'd love my captchas to be little Folding@Home problems.

Re: Cap: Lightweight, modern open-source CAPTCHA alternative using proof-of-work

#69
post #4

What does proof-of-work mean here and what makes it easy for humans and hard for bots?

i wrote a bit about it here: https://capjs.js.org/guide/effectiveness.html

ahh, that makes sense, thanks

I do think that calling this a CAPTCHA when it's not actually intended to distinguish humans from computers is a bit misleading, but I can see why you would do that

Re: Cap: Lightweight, modern open-source CAPTCHA alternative using proof-of-work

#70

I was wondering if more sites will start to drift to a system where they require you to be logged in to an account attached to a SIM card in some ways. I feel like accounts that require phone verification are already similar in that they require a some cost to access. It obviously wouldn't stop a large corporation from buying up thousands of numbers if they needed it for a specific purpose, but it would be prohibitiv…

Yes because having an account gets around adblockers, anti tracking, age verification and section 230 removal issues. ToS is already weaponized.
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